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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #41 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:32 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Can't let myself get sealed in. This also aims at invading the bottom left. I need to get sente to play in the upper right and prevent white M13, but am unsure whether that is bigger than something on the left.


Question for the audience:
Do you want me to do more diagrams and get into tactics more? Or is my mostly strategic commentary enough?
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #42 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:48 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
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GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Redundant:
I feel like your commentary is pretty good, both for content and for length. You seem to go with 1-4 diagrams on almost every move, showing the general idea, but supplement it with the strategic text explaining the all-important 'why'.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #43 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:40 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Two things: 'a', that I wanted to play earlier, is too far:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ko, but I don't think it's favorable for me! So I can only jump to :b4: in above diagram!

Secondly, I think that the left bigger right now and defending the right is gote for black!
I'm hoping for something like this: :w3: strengthens both sides!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 3 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . a , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he plays :b2: more aggressively and hanes, I'll have to read a bit, but I should be able to play something similar! :w3: might be good at a point around 'a' too!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #44 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:53 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Too good for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm fine with third line territory here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll cross this bridge when I come to it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #45 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:53 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm42 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Extending seems like the right thing to do, because it doesn't give him an atari and it doesn't allow him to break through into my area! C12 is a followup which strengthens my left side, so I expect him to play there first, giving me sente!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . 4 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . O X . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . . . 3 5 a . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . e O . . d . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . c . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

for :w7: I'm currently looking at a-e
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #46 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:22 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll take third line territory here. I'm starting to worry about him getting a moyo.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #47 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:12 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
For either :b2: I will respond with :w3: !
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . 2 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think he will ignore these forcing moves! If I can capture these two stones, I have a strong group sitting in front of his territory, which will make it much harder for him to convert it all into points!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #48 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:15 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . 1 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really wanted this point, but didn't want to get sealed in on the top left to get it.
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #49 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:33 pm 
Gosei
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Zwergesel:

OT, but why do you use an exclamation mark at the end of all your sentences?

Not for players:
The :w46: :b47: exchange feels like complete aji keshi to me. Zwergesel should reject it.

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #50 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:19 pm 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
Zwergesel:

OT, but why do you use an exclamation mark at the end of all your sentences?

"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." -Terry Pratchett
:lol:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I hope this is a good move. It looks good on paper! Of course there's space to invade, but if he comes in I should be able to get profit out of chasing him and there's a chance that I might even kill him!!
What bothers me more is that I leave a cut at L13 with this tenuki and if he chooses to cut now, the fighting will become ugly!!!
Here's what I see:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 4 . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . 3 1 O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 5 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 7 6 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . W O . . . . 9 8 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looks horrible, but he's got nowhere to run, so I should be able to kill him before he can catch any of my stones!!!! I can't read it all though, so it's risky!!!!!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #51 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:22 pm 
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OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . 1 O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When trying to destroy a moyo, take a friend.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #52 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Oh well, here we go. :-? I will take some time on the next move to make sure I can win this fight.
If not there's the possibility to just grab territory in the lower left and treat these stones as aji.
@DuskEagle: Just for you I didn't use exclamation marks this time. :D
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #53 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:09 pm 
Gosei
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@Zwergesel
Yes!! Thank you!!!

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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #54 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:00 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I'm going to sacrifice the two stones. The fight has too many variations and I get many cutting points. It's risky.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O 4 O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 7 6 O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 5 2 B O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . a 3 1 b . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This creates two new cutting points at 'a' and 'b', but 'a' is easier to defend and if he cuts at 'b' I can sacrifice some more. :)
Note that if he plays :b4: at :w5: then :w5: at :w7: prevents the capture and we have a capturing race again. He'd be in a much weaker position though and I don't think he can win this race.

Hmm, I still have the option to fight though, I'm going to count again and decide based on that.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #55 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:54 am 
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Tygem: redundant
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DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . 1 X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like the atari here for white. It's mostly a feel thing, but now he's induced me to play a sente move that I would have played anyway.

What I'm going for here is to get enough sente moves against his floating group to live in the middle.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #56 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm50 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm50 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O 2 O X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 3 X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #57 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:03 pm 
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Rank: lazy
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OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O 1 . X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 3 . X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 2 X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

From now on, I'm going to overplay ridiculously to see what it takes to start a fight with him. He's been pretty passive the whole game.
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #58 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:03 am 
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Redundant wrote:
From now on, I'm going to overplay ridiculously to see what it takes to start a fight with him. He's been pretty passive the whole game.

Not for players:
Seems like black has enough solid territory at this point that white should be the one picking fights. If black plays solidly from here on out, reducing white's moyo from the bottom, he should be able to win no problem. White's going for a large central moyo, but it's just too hard to defend from leaks.

_________________
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Offline Shaddy
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #59 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:34 am 
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Numsgil:
I don't think he cares about that. He just wants a fight.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #60 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:36 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O X . X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . O X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . 1 . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm way behind unless I can take all or at least most of the territory in the lower left, so I'm afraid I can't take the time to connect solidly at J14.
If he – again – cuts immediately, I'm planning to do the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O X . X . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 1 X . X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 4 O X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 3 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . W . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The two black stones are not easily rescued and I can build a moyo while chasing them.
However, I think he'll just reduce the left now. That way he's probably going to win. I'm not satisfied with my opening in this game. :(
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