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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #61 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:37 am 
Tengen
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Laman wrote:
white R12 looks premature to me. black blocks the corner and white lacks an obvious continuation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

i would most likely play O17, in the biggest empty space, and then start thinking about an invasion on the right
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

if black answer as below...it is very good for white.
white can play as below and create ladder breaker and escape at same time.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


your suggestion is good but black will build moyo and now it is very hard to invade..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

i am not going to say i am right but that is what i feel...

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Offline EdLee
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Post #62 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:08 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
(p)
Not good. Even just fixing the shape with :w1: is better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #63 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:35 pm 
Honinbo
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After some thought, I still went with my first feeling.
If B takes :b1: first, it's a bit annoying to find a good continuation for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
(For beginners, too.) As it is, I feel lucky to end in sente to play on the right first.
With this :wc: invasion, B may build some kind of wall on the right side,
which will greatly diminish W's development on top -- this seems reasonable,
as W reduces B's right side, so B reduces W on top:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . ? . . . . . . ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? . . . . . . ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ {LN Q12 Q8}
$$ {AR Q12 Q13}
$$ {AR Q8 Q7}[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #64 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:57 am 
Gosei
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Haha, unexpected. What's my track record on predicting moves at this point? :P

Pretty sure I'll play on top next (unless I develop some kind of brilliant plan starting with attacking R12 somehow (eg P12 or P13 directly)). My inclination would otherwise be 3rd line on top (ie M17), but now that I already have something to attack I will give more thought to high moves (high moves provide support in a fight).

If I had to guess why Ed played 30, I would assume because he wants to play N4 soon and threaten to bring my (current) Q6ish thickness under attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Reference.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


edit;
PS: I suspect the plan goes something like, I play from toppish, he contacts R8 and is then either out in the centre or can slide S14ish to live happily on the right. If I need to thwart that, taking R10 myself directly or indirectly is interesting but feels a little like sub-par direction to me. I think I can probably accept this plan, especially if it gives me a second play on top.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #65 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:06 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I`m impatient, I want to see the plan. This move is big, and avoids accidentally encouraging him to settle (30) (without gaining elsewhere, at least..)

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #66 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:39 am 
Honinbo
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Tenuki, tenuki. Interesting. :) Some first feeling ideas:
(a) keima; (b) 3-3; (c) iron pillar; (d) kosumi; (g) jump; ( :white: e- :black:f- :white: g) shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c e 2 . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . f . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . g . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
My guess is Loons considered (p) and (q) directions miai:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . q . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . p . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #67 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:22 am 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm32
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #68 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:27 am 
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Very non-trivial for me. So I took a long time and still went with one of the first feelings.
One purpose is to prevent B from sliding under with something like (x).
I decided against the ( :white: e- :black:f- :white: g) sequence because I don't want
to make B's corner any stronger; I'd like to keep the aji there as-is.
The iron pillar (c) is solid, but maybe too solid, a bit slow, so I rejected it too.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm32
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c e X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . f . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . g . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #69 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:55 am 
Gosei
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I like this last move, it looks much nicer on the board than it did in my head. It preempts the black move at H16 I was eyeing. My inclination is just to slide at K18, but I am also thinking of playing S13 first.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #70 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:09 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

(Edit)
More explanation of why I chose 33:

White playing a thick move locally makes my three space extension thinner, so I want to reinforce it.

Both Ed and I have big prospects on top. Only I have prospects on the right.

A play on the right has to unsettle R12. It's already unsettled.

Ed's shape top left has a little bit of aji until he gets a proper cut-fixing move, so my plays on top are a little more sente.

More broadly: I think my D13 group is potentially positioned well to thwart what prospects Ed is building in the centre.


What I do hope for from R12: I am hoping it makes Ed miss the R17 invasion. I haven't yet come up with a good active play that really takes away any invasion from the top right by leaning on R12. Maybe R14 - P12 - N12 ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #71 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:47 pm 
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I made a big mistake, I think. It's amazing even with 2 days this blunder can still happen.
Note to self: don't play when tired, even if it's been sitting for a few days. :batman:
I saw Loon's :bc: right before I went to sleep, and I thought of resigning.
Let's think about this a bit and see if there's still any hope. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 1 B 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 3 7 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Now the other variation looks so much better. :oops:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , 1 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . 2 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
(p)
The :w32: kosumi was not bad; in fact, it's the right direction to help :w30:.
Instead of :w32:, W could also settle on the right side with :w1: and (b), etc.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
The kick variation was inferior to :w32: because of W's weaknesses top left:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . 4 , 1 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . 2 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
The keima :b33:( :bc:) is a kind of thank-you move, because it helps W fix his weaknesses top left:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Instead, B could've jumped directly into the (c) areas and exploit the weakness at (d), etc., and suddenly :wc: is even under attack:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . c . W . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #72 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:27 pm 
Honinbo
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Posts: 8859
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Probe. I inadvertently turned the game into an entirely new direction with :w32:. :oops:
So before I proceed, let's see Black's replies here first.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #73 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:45 pm 
Gosei
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Hard :(
There's got to be a splitting attack here somewhere.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . @ . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . P . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . P . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

There's got to be a splitting attack here somewhere. This is where I am strong, so I should respond thickly. But which thick response is going to be useful where... I also have to be careful about my marked stones coming under attack, while I want to run in on top with them as well.....

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #74 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:23 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Q14 seems strangely placed for any other response. I also feel good about this move because it makes M17 a little stronger. Now I just have to worry about not becoming pointlessly over-concentrated.

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Last edited by Loons on Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re:
Post #75 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:38 pm 
Judan
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EdLee wrote:
I made a big mistake, I think. It's amazing even with 2 days this blunder can still happen...


I think that Ed is being too hard on himself. L15 looks like a decent move, maybe the best move.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #76 Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:44 pm 
Honinbo
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Outside hane :b35:; a few choices here for W. Read, read, read... :study:
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Post #77 Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:04 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O 3 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
This is what I am anticipating, the marked stone should get hurt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . 3 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O 4 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Trying to push onto top seems bad for white compared to:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm34
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 3 O 2 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I think white tenuki -> run with R12 or something is also a very real possibility, leaving top right as a very large gote.


PS: Ed, the game name should really be '126. Edlee vs Loons' considering you are white.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #78 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:06 am 
Honinbo
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Oh, Loons, I didn't know there's a naming convention. Also, I started the thread before nigiri,
so I just put your name first as common courtesy. :P (Been very exhausted the past few days --
long day trip ... as soon as my brain clears up, I'll post. Thanks. :))
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re:
Post #79 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:53 am 
Tengen
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EdLee wrote:
Oh, Loons, I didn't know there's a naming convention. Also, I started the thread before nigiri,
so I just put your name first as common courtesy. :P (Been very exhausted the past few days --
long day trip ... as soon as my brain clears up, I'll post. Thanks. :))


I use the same convention as you Ed :)
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Offline EdLee
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Post #80 Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:23 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm36
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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