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 Post subject: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #1 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Universal go server handle: mw42
Hello, all. This is my first Malkovich game so please let me know if I am providing sufficient commentary.

I will take black in this game. We will use Japanese rules with a 6,5 komi. I don't plan on consulting any joseki dictionaries or databases for the next move and I hope my opponent does the same.

Have a good game. :-)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I plan on using this method to discuss variations instead of creating multiple diagrams. I have not seen anyone else do this, so I wonder if it is okay? Please, let me know. :-)
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]C[To be honest, I have no objective way of evaluating the first four moves, so I normally play the same way which makes my opening fairly boring. Perhaps I will try to add some spice for this game.]
(;W[dd]
;B[qp]
(;W[dp]
;B[fq]
;W[dn]
;B[kq]C[I typically play the mini-chinese fuseki against a double 4-4 and expect to in this game if my opponent uses it.])
(;W[dq]
;B[oq]LB[cp:A]C[I will probably enclose the corner in this position.]))
(;W[dc]
;B[qo]LB[cd:A]C[I've been thinking about playing this mokuhazushi if my opponent opens with a komoku. I hope I get to play it as I haven't had the opportunity yet.]))[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #2 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:02 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 116
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even game, no idea what my rank actually is but it's somewhere around 1 - 2k. This should be fun.

If it's a diagonal fuseki I'll play a 3-4 in the bottom right. If my opponent plays in the bottom right I'll play a 3-4 or I'll play 3-3. Not much else to say for now.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #3 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Last move for me today. Good night!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]LB[pq:A]C[So, I get to play this move as I would have liked. I will try to play more for influence in the beginning expecting white to jump into my corner around A to which I will shoulder hit and build a wall.]
(;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[mp]
;W[lq]C[In this position, I even might like to play an nadare in the upper-left. I realize this might be an odd way of playing, but I cannot immediately say it is bad.]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[cc]
;B[df]
;W[cg]
;B[fd]C[Bad or good? I think it is interesting, at least!])
(;W[cp]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[cc]
;B[df]
;W[cg]
;B[fd]
;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[qj]LB[dq:A]C[Maybe this will be my plan if white plays komoku. It should lead to a fight on the upper-side which will be fun!]))[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #4 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:01 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 116
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 11
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . c , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . b . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he makes a shimari at a an extension to b is good for me. If he plays c I can split the right side at d. I think if he shoulder hits my 3-3 it feels premature since I will probably end with sente and be able to approach his 5-3. Other than that it's still too early for a lot of commentary.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #5 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:58 am 
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Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
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Universal go server handle: mw42
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]C[This looks like it is going to be a territory versus moyo game. I'll go ahead with my plan to play the nadare in the upper-right.]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[cf]
;B[db]
;W[cc]
(;B[fd]LB[jc:C][df:A][cg:B]C[This might be the result. I might exchange A for B before making the tiger's mouth or I may play C before the tiger's mouth.])
(;B[jc]LB[fc:B][ed:A]C[White may try to start a fight at A or B.]))[/sgf-full]


Last edited by mw42 on Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #6 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:48 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 116
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 11
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GD Posts: 55
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's too many variations to show all of them (especially with the avalanche) so here's a couple things I'm looking at:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , 5 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . 7 , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . b . . . 9 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


5 is looking to approach the top right corner and playing another stone on the third line would feel too low. 6 aims at the shoulder hit at a. Playing 6 low would be safer from invasion but black has been playing more influence oriented moves so playing low would be inconsistent. If black defends the corner with 8 and 10 white gets a good extension from the 3-3 and the two stones to the right at b.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . b , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black plays this way my position is a little low but later I may be able to push up at a or approach at b, maybe both. I'll see if black even plays the avalanche before I decide if I actually want to avoid it or not.

The reason I decided not to tenuki or pincer is because I want solid territory here and my 3-3 stone doesn't have as much potential to develop a moyo if I pincered as a 4-4 or even 3-4 would for example.

Also many 5-4 point joseki end with black in this case getting a good amount of influence which would work well later if he gets to shoulder hit my 3-3.

I'm not too good at the opening, I wouldn't say I'm good at the middlegame and my endgame is bad so hopefully I can learn something from this game. :lol: Comments will be appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #7 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:29 pm 
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Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
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Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
If you agree...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not much to say, this is what I was planning to do. When it comes to it, I think I will extend immediately and see how he responds. If he cuts, the ladder is good for me so I feel I have the advantage and the extension is too big to let white play there first.

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[cf]
;B[db]
;W[cc]
;B[jc]LB[nc:D][oc:B][fd:C][qd:A][oe:F][qf:E]C[In some recent pro games I've seen, this extension is made then white approaches the upper-right corner. However, in these pro games, black has played komoku at A and white approaches at B then black C. In my game, if white approaches at D then black C and white E I feel I could make a strong double attack at F. I'm not sure how white will respond, but this is my plan.])[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #8 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:10 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 116
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 11
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going to avoid the avalanche.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 6 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is another possibility as well as what I had in my last post. I don't think he can effectively cut at 3.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this black needs to play a defensive move but he can't defend both the top and the left.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #9 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:56 pm 
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:scratch:

I wasn't expecting that. I'm going to take a little time to think about how to respond.

EDIT: I don't know if this move is common or a trick. I've only been playing for about a year and don't often play the avalanche. It seems natural for black to crosscut, white connect, black atari but I want to think about it more. It also seems possible to nobi then hane at the head of white's two stones if white connects.


Last edited by mw42 on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #10 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:41 pm 
Dies with sente

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Well I don't know what he's thinking but apparently he's never seen my last move before otherwise he probably would have responded in his last post instead of just posting his thoughts. If anyone cares I learned this variation from one of the games in Kamakura (which I got as a gift for Christmas), Kitani played it against Go Seigen. Here's the beginning of the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 7 5 . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X 3 . . . , . . . . 5 . O . . |
$$ | . 2 . O O . 8 . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If you don't already have the book, I'd recommend it. The commentary on the games is good and so is the biographical information. I don't have the other books in the series yet though so I can't say anything about those.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #11 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:26 am 
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Sorry for the delay; I had to shovel some snow last night.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]PW[Perception]PB[mw42];B[pd];W[dc];B[qo];W[cq];B[de];W[ce];B[dd];W[cd];B[ec];W[eb]
;B[fc]C[I've decided to go with this nobi. If white pushes on the side...

He could also nobi or hane...]
(;W[fb];B[gc];W[gb]
;B[hc]C[Obviously this is good for black.])
(;W[cf]
(;B[cc];W[db];B[fb];W[cb];B[jc])
(;B[db];W[cc];B[fb];W[cj]
;B[jc]C[This gives a similar (but I think better) result to if I just played D18 immediately.]))
(;W[df];B[cc];W[db]
;B[bc]C[Now there is aji with a cut at E14, but if he just fixes...

So, he must reduce liberties.]
(;W[cf]
;B[fb]C[Then I can kill his three stones.])
(;W[bd]
;B[fb]C[Then this bend is sente.];W[cb]
;B[fe]C[Now, if he doesn't respond to this, I can get a good position on both sides which is too bad for him.];W[cg]C[Then I get sente, I think I'll use it to to play on the bottom...];B[gq];W[dn];B[jq])))[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #12 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:23 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 116
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black needs to extend to 13. Blocking at a instead and allowing white to hane at 13 would be painful. Later if black leaves the opening at a it will be helpful in reducing or invading at the top. If black tries to hane instead of extending to 13 I can cut at 13.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #13 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:43 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not too much to say here, I don't think. I want to hane, but if I hane he can cut immediately since his corner group is strong, and while I don't think I will die anywhere he will be able to harass my groups and hurt my plan to obtain influence. He will probably (should, I think) respond to this with a one-space jump down the side. This gives me sente to play on the bottom. I'm not too anxious to extend from my wall because of the open skirt, and I think that group is fairly thick. I think the bottom is bigger right now.

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[eb]
;B[fc]
;W[cb]
;B[df]
;W[cg]
;B[fq]
;W[do]
;B[iq]LB[pq:A]C[This is my plan. After I get the two-space extension on the bottom, A looks huge. If white takes it...]
;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[qj]LB[qq:A]C[I get to play on the right in virtual sente, I think. White's group on the bottom doesn't look all that healthy since I still have aji in the corner at A.])[/sgf-full]


Last edited by mw42 on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #14 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:49 am 
Tengen
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Hmmm, neither player has any great urgency to develop the bottom. The bottom right corner, or the right side, look bigger to me


This post by topazg was liked by 2 people: mw42, snorri
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Post #15 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:04 am 
Lives in gote

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I "liked" topazg since he was the first person to take an interest in this thread. :-) Maybe a similar fate awaits all who care to comment!

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #16 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:28 pm 
Gosei
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Perception wrote:
If anyone cares I learned this variation from one of the games in Kamakura (which I got as a gift for Christmas)

Nice, so did I.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.


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Post #17 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:57 pm 
Dies with sente

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I'm glad to see we're getting some comments now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't let him turn and seal me in so I've got to jump ahead. I expect black to tenuki, either to make a shimari in the lower right or to shoulder hit my 3-3 in the lower left.

If he makes the shimari I'll extend to below the bottom star point.

If he plays the shoulder hit here's what I expect:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 4 1 3 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like that anyway. I think black would tenuki instead of responding directly to 8 because I can't see any local response that's really any good and to play at 8 instead of 7 allowing white to cut wouldn't be any good either.

With the top bottom and right sides all being so wide open still I'd feel okay with this since I would have around 30 solid points including komi.

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #18 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:09 pm 
Lives with ko

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for mw42 :
Nothing to say about the game for now, but since no one told you yet, your sgf comments are nice. I for one like to have the context of the game as a side effect.


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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #19 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:48 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
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Universal go server handle: mw42
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, I decided to play on the bottom. I am not 100% confident it is the correct decision, but I don't think the resulting position from a possible pincer (see my diagrams) is unplayable. We shall see!
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Perception]PB[mw42]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[cq]
;B[de]
;W[ce]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[ec]
;W[eb]
;B[fc]
;W[cb]
;B[df]
;W[cg]C[If black plays on the bottom...]
;B[fq]LB[pf:C][qf:D][do:A][iq:B]C[then A is normal, but I wonder if in this case a pincer around B is possible. It is not easy for black to attack the snug 3-3 stone, so reverting to the shoulder hit joseki is maybe the best black can do.

I am also considering C and D. D works to enclose black's corner and C develops the framework on either side.

I'll decide whether I play on the bottom or at C or D while I make my next post. :-)]
(;W[do]
;B[iq]
;W[pq]
;B[op]
;W[oq]
;B[np]
;W[mq]
;B[mp]
;W[lq]
;B[qj]C[If the game goes like this, I like this development for black.])
(;W[iq]
;B[dp]
;W[cp]
;B[do]
;W[cn]
;B[fo]C[Perhaps this move is too slow.]
;W[lq]C[Now this doesn't look horrible, but now I think black should enclose the corner.]
;B[pq]C[However, white already has a position on the open side of the shimari, and I don't think it is too easy to attack white's two-space extension.

I'd say already white has about 30 points of secure territory and black only has about 15. So, I feel a bit behind even with all my influence.]))[/sgf-full]

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 Post subject: Re: 96: Perception (2k) vs. mw42 (2k)
Post #20 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:52 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 59
Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
lorill wrote:
for mw42 :
Nothing to say about the game for now, but since no one told you yet, your sgf comments are nice. I for one like to have the context of the game as a side effect.


@lorill

I'm glad you like it. It's a lot easier then creating a ton of diagrams! It also helps to organize my thoughts when I'm thinking about moves. During games, I tend to play a lot on instinct and not think too much on the positions. That is the exact opposite of what I am doing here. Already I can see the game is different from how I usually play. :clap:

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