which looks fine for me, but I'm not sure where he'll play next.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
Extending with this group is important because it helps keeps his R11 stone separated from his O7 group. Playing an extension one space farther isn't that good because it places his R11 stone in an ideal location. I thought about playing as in the variation below, but if he jumps out with it's hard to move my corner group into the center to keep him split and prevent me from being sealed in.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
I wouldn't worry about this variation so much. It seems like it might even be possible to kill white (though I haven't spent much time reading). I don't know exactly what to start with. Maybe this:
So black's move seems to put more pressure on my (a) stone then my group. I am happy to approach his corner and strengthen the stone. If black caps at (c), I can either kosumi at (d) or connect to (b) at (e). Maybe an extension of (b) to (f) is also possible, but it seems bad compared to because, for one thing, it approaches a strong corner whereas I am approaching an open corner and it seems to me that if I want some presence in this area, I should contact the strong stone at (g).
In this game, I am trying to put a lot of though into the efficiency of stones which is why, e.g. I didn't play the honte move of (h). I didn't think white can severely attack my group and that I could treat (b) lightly. Also, it is why I am not worrying about black's cap on my group. If you are going to run, it is best to run through as narrow of a space as possible, I think (so long as you are not giving more away to your opponent by doing so and because of my (a) group I feel his cap won't be able to coordinate well with the top).
My explanation of : I want to play at (a), but if black just extends to and I play at (b) to complete the corner, either immediately or a little later, black has already occupied my optimal extension. So, if I play then black avoids the corner, I will play (a). Not only will this make approaching the corner more awkward for black, but it will give me the option of playing at (b), enclosure cum extension. If he takes the corner at (c) or (d), my approach at (e) or (f) will be nicely supported by . If he plays at (b), then W(a). If B(g), occupies his optimal extension.
I'm sure this is a ridiculously horrible move.
for Obs
White indulged in a classic bit of over-thinking here, manufacturing reasons to hope to play where he wants to rather than carrying his analysis through to the logical end. Consider the bottom side...
White expects B2 in response to W1. If then W3, B2 is well placed to limit the development of the shimari. This is a reasonable thought. But having thought this far... why does White still want to play W1???
In shifting W1 to 2 in the diagram, White is still trying to get the chance to play at 1 later. White imagines first that if Black plays elsewhere, White can return to play at W1. This ignores the fact that after a play by White at 2, the most interesting place for Black to play is the lower left corner. It is unrealistic to assume a Black play anywhere else. OK, White solves that dilemma by going on to analyze that if Black plays in the corner, the result will not be that good for Black. For example, White assumes that if Black indeed plays in the corner at 3, a White play at 1 will leave Black disappointed. Yet if this were true, we would expect to find the following W3 in our joseki books (the order is different but the result is the same)...
In fact, we do not. While Black is less comfortable with W3 on the board than without it, W3 is too loose a play to bother Black to any great extent. Black can even afford to tenuki here without any great fear.
The correct course of action after White decided that W1 could lead to an unattractive result was to reject W1 as the place to play in the corner and choose an alternative... in the corner. The basics of corners before sides were not changed by anything in White's analysis.
Who among us has not given in to the trap of imagining that our opponents will forget for a moment that Go is a competitive game and kindly look the other way while we complete some dream structure? Sadly on those happy occasions when our opponent does cooperate, we normally discover that it was only because our dreams were not quite as clear as our opponent's reading
_________________ Dave Sigaty "Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..." - Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
I think this makes him stronger on the outside though, so I ultimately rejected it.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
This is the sequence I expect. I may consider playing at (a). Then B(b) &c.
For Obs
The alternative Wa, Bb, etc. mentioned above is the type of exchange that we should never contemplate. White voluntarily creates a cut by Black of two unsettled White groups. Granted the cutting stone is not strong either (yet!) but all the other Black stones involved are. Indeed in the process of creating the cut, White "forces" Black to strengthen the right side through the addition of the b and c stones.
The simple jump to W4 is much better.
_________________ Dave Sigaty "Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..." - Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
I'm not sure how well I can justify why I chose playing low over playing high. It's just my feeling about what's better. Playing low is more territorial and it doesn't require a followup, and white's group already has wiggle room on the right, so the added pressure of playing high doesn't seem as valuable. That's how I see it anyway.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
What do others think about Dusk Eagle's last move? I would have played high, probably. Although, I suppose he has a point that it's hard to really attack white's group severely.
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Kirby wrote:
What do others think about Dusk Eagle's last move? I would have played high, probably. Although, I suppose he has a point that it's hard to really attack white's group severely.
Obs:
I think that DE is probably right that there is no good way to pressure the White group. However, that means that he could not afford to play B17 (note that the game diagram lost a couple of move numbers along the way), leading to B19.
Should Black have ignored W16 and continued to drive out the larger White group?
_________________ Dave Sigaty "Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..." - Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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To observers:
Dusk Eagle wrote:
...I'm not sure how well I can justify why I chose playing low over playing high. It's just my feeling about what's better. Playing low is more territorial and it doesn't require a followup, and white's group already has wiggle room on the right, so the added pressure of playing high doesn't seem as valuable...
Ok, I'll agree with that reasoning. But if white has so much wiggle room, what was the point of kicking white with the previous move?
...I'm not sure how well I can justify why I chose playing low over playing high. It's just my feeling about what's better. Playing low is more territorial and it doesn't require a followup, and white's group already has wiggle room on the right, so the added pressure of playing high doesn't seem as valuable...
Ok, I'll agree with that reasoning. But if white has so much wiggle room, what was the point of kicking white with the previous move?
I've gotta admit, that I like to kick a lot. That's because the kick usually has a predictable response, and I usually feel like the added stone in the corner - though it doesn't necessarily secure it - feels worth more to me than white's response.
That is, in this case, R15 feels worth more to me than Q14, even if white has no problem living.
Maybe my feeling is flawed, but it's still the feeling I have. I feel like white is less likely to play 3-3, for example. I am happy with that, usually.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
He wants to not get surrounded, so I will threaten to surround again. I expect (a). is strong so I need not be concerned with hurting it. If he responds, I now have time to do something with .
This is painful, but I have to get out. He's done a better job than me so far. I don't know on what move I went wrong, yet this result looks bad for me. Hopefully I can learn after the game.
_________________ We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are. Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness. We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before, No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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