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156 Redundant vs Magicwand
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Author:  Redundant [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Have a good game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This should be interesting ... I just need to play thick, take influence, and the points will take care of themselves.

Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

gg

this will not be that easy...but i will try my best

Author:  cyclops [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

I saw a discussion recently in L192 about white's 4-4 in a 3 stones game.
It was said to simplify the game where white should welcome complications

Anyway I am sure to enjoy watching this game.

Author:  Redundant [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm in no rush to approach his 4-4. He might try to complicate with some pincer I'm uncomfortable with. It's also not as urgent to approach a 4-4.

I used to hate sanrensei, but the last couple of days I've been playing it on wbaduk, where it's a completely overpowered instant win fuseki. The players there love to let me build it into a huge moyo, which they then invade, live small, invade again, then die.

Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i know that chance will come. i must be paticent and wait for my chance.

Author:  Redundant [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . 4 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't have to do anything special yet. I play high because all my stones are high. This also offers a better attack on his approach if he does anything funny.

Author:  Loons [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

@Redundant
You should try guessing what mw's next move will be, even when it's impossible to tell, like now. See how good a read you have on your opponent.


Good game both.

Author:  Redundant [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Loons wrote:
@Redundant
You should try guessing what mw's next move will be, even when it's impossible to tell, like now. See how good a read you have on your opponent.


Good game both.


If he's thinking that he can win a calm game, he might play the 18k joseki of the knights move. If he's trying to make things happen, he may play in the H3 area to double approach my stones. I'm fine with either. He could also tenuki completely, but then he'll be busy later, and I can just stay calm and eventually he'll either pull off something amazing that I can learn a good deal from, or he'll end up with a subpar result from said business. I hope that last sentence makes any sense ...

On another note, I hope he didn't think poorly of me for the sanrensei.

Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

H3

Author:  Redundant [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He's trying to complicate things. I just need to play calmly and make my stones safe. I expect him to either jump out from his stone, or peep my extension. In either case, I'll have time to strengthen my corner, and I've just made my right side a little bigger with this pincer. He's going to be busy.

Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i played this move before.. i want to rattle his mind and see how he react

Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

correct move to my peep is to connect.
my followup move will be to jump as below.
it is not ease for black to find correct response for that and if he slips i will gain great influence.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  jts [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Tesuji and Zokusuji gives this diagram as "one of the more primitive trick moves":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And then offers this follow-up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 c 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W 1 O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X a b . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Exchanging a for b is one way to fall into the trap, as is capturing the marked stone with a double atari at c. Does anyone know how MW's version of the sequence differs?

Author:  Redundant [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Hmm ... let's see if I can find any good reasons not to connect this.

Author:  Redundant [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going to guess that MW doesn't like this variation, so he's peeping to make me connect the wrong way in this variation. It's still not worth trying too hard to fight against the peep. I'm feeling quite happy in this game. He's trying really hard to get me out of my comfort zone, but if I read carefully and keep things simple, I'm confident.

Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

H5 jump

Author:  Redundant [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's cut him. I don't want to play in the gap between H5 and E5 because anything there lets him get forcing moves there.

If he tries to resist the cut, I'll get thickness facing his jump, which is without a good base due to the pincer and my three connected stones being thick enough to resist anything trying to get a base beneath them.

Author:  Magicwand [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

what he played seems correct... but i didnt lose toomany points so i am still ok.

Author:  Redundant [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm strong enough here to really fight. Extending to E6 is just tepid.

Author:  Magicwand [ Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 156 Redundant vs Magicwand

E8

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