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 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek 5d beats Ali Jabarin 1p
Post #21 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:50 am 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
This is such a nice aspect of European tournament go: there are even games regardless of amateur or professional ranks, and the professionals have the courage to accept occasional losses.


For now, with only two of them, anything else seems impossible. What will happen when there is, say, 12 of them? I can well imagine that there will be a number of closed tournaments.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek 5d beats Ali Jabarin 1p
Post #22 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:10 pm 
Judan

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RobertJasiek wrote:
With N4 instead of O4, one enters constant worries about whether Black S3 works. IOW, N4 is not proper.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------+
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . O . . . |
$$ . . . O . . . |
$$ . X . . . . . |
$$ . . . a . . . |
$$ . . . c . . . |
$$ . . b . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . , X d . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]


I had a look for this shape in GoGoD and the results were: a = 6, b = 3, c = 3. In one of the c games black did live inside but that was helped a lot by a black stone at d which appeared during a ko fight. So I don't think the kosumi can be dismissed outright, but it will depend a lot on the rest of the board and who is likely to have sente to start actions here and what effect they have on neighbouring groups. In your game white does the q7 s8 combo immediately afterwards which slightly changes the s3 aji.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek 5d beats Ali Jabarin 1p
Post #23 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:48 pm 
Judan

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OC, positional context matters. However, here White has little use for a faster shape on the lower outside. - If White had combined N4 with Q7, I might have considered a more aggressive answer to retain the S3 aji, such as Q8 at R7.

In similar positions in my earlier games, a few professionals have commented on Q7 etc. being premature and helping Black more than White. Comments were like "Q8 punishes White for his unreasonable, premature invasion". I agree. I.e., the black thickness is worth more than White's added 6 points of territory.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Jasiek 5d beats Ali Jabarin 1p
Post #24 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:26 pm 
Judan

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Is q7 itself premature, or just the s8 continuation? q7 I see as a probe, getting black to commit to a choice early and although it could be aji keshi I often see it in pro games (thinking of the shape of the three black stones generally rather also against that white corner shape). s8 does seem too early as you managed to use the resulting group as thickness that contributed to your moyo. I have seen games where that group is attacked later as s8 takes eyespace as well as territory. So I think white should treat the q8 answer to the probe as creating a large gote move that for later but not take it until it is clear black can't efficiently use the thickness. There is a slight danger q7 becomes mochikomi if black later make the other one point jump from his group or otherwise swallows it.

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