Invasion Question

Dazz · #1

Hi,

This is from a game I played against a 7 kyu. I am looking for advice on how to deal with white's invasion at L3. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you

Dazz · #2

Of course, any other advice leading up to that point would be very welcome as well

Shaddy · #3

K3 instead of L4.

Joaz Banbeck · #4

One of the bad habits that most of us acquired as DDKs was thinking that the point of attacking was to kill. As you get stronger, you will find out that this is not true. At the upper levels of play, the vast majority of attacks do not result in kills.

When you start attacking, think about several possible ways of profiting from your attack.
"Can I kill?
"Can I defend one of my own groups in sente?"
"Can I make territory?"
"Can I get influence?"
I wider array of options like this will make you a stronger player.

As Shaddy says, play K3. This deprives your opponent of eye space. He must run. You let him run. He runs north along the L column, gaining almost nothing. You run north along the K column for three or four moves, building influence. Then you stop and play C8.

This is an example of attacking to get influence. You build influence while chasing, then turn and use that influence to attack something else. Maybe you kill it. There is your profit.

Maybe it manages a tiny life in gote. But while you are attacking it with C8 then E8 and other similar moves nearby, you take the left side territory.

EDIT: See my post #6 below for a graphic version of this idea.

Phelan · #5

Shaddy wrote:

K3 instead of L4.

What he said. By playing L4, you are accepting his invasion, and saying you only want the influence. While it might be appropriate in another situation, here you are pretty strong on both sides, with low stones on the right. That means that you can fight this one out.

As for before, the only thing I don't really like is your reply to C6. Once again, you seem strong enough in the area to pincer, instead of drawing back.

I feel Q11 should be R11, but not sure. Later you have to play lower to close off that side anyway. Also, how about connecting at S12 instead of Q12?

Joaz Banbeck · #6

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Attack #1: Making some profit in the shaded area $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . ? ? ? ? . 1 O . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Attack #2: Building influence $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 8 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . X . . . X 2 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . 1 O . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Attack #3: Force him toward your strength. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . B . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . B . B . . . X O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . X O . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c If he lives small in gote, you take profit with the squared stone. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O . . O . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X X X . . . X O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . X O . . X . . X . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Note that both of his groups are alive after you have attacked them. Have your attacks failed? No, for you have made territory in two different locations.

Attacking is about more than just killing.

Dazz · #7

Thank you to all who responded. K3 seems obvious now that it has been explained. Joaz, your explanation and accompanying diagrams are very helpful and tie in nicely with what I am reading in Attack & Defense right now. You are right to point out that attacking is about more than killing because you were able to see my motivation behind the move. I keep thinking I get this but then I go after invasions trying to kill them when I am not able to.

Phelan, thanks for your input. I like what you said about the pincer. That makes sense and I need to try this because I often play too passively. Connecting at S12 does seem to be better.

Bill Spight · #8

Some comments.

Dazz · #9

Thank you Bill. I went through all the variations you showed and found them helpful.

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