Tough OGS game

Uberdude · #1

Here's a recent OGS game of mine that I'd like to be analyzed please. I actually won it in the end, but I think it was rather lucky that it turned out my opponent over-attacked me trying to kill me (I thought I could die) and when I found a way to live I could counter-attack. I felt that I lost control of the game in the middlegame, and that white was maybe 10 points ahead if he didn't try to kill. You can see my comments of the moves I have doubts about, particularly n6 (43), l12 (61), o7 (65), but hopefully a fresh pair of eyes will see the game in a different way and identify other mistakes.

Joaz Banbeck · #2

Black looks good up through 38. With 39, 41, and 43 the direction of play seems too casual. By move 54, one gets the feeling that white has equalized on the board and is ahead by komi.

41: It is not clear to me what you get out of playing at J14. The strong white stone at G17 renders much of the top side uninteresting, so this stone doesn't do much northward. To the south, you are pushing from behind ( although from two spaces away ) so there seems little southward benefit. And you can connect underneath any time with C12 or make eye space with B13, so running is not urgent. White, OTOH, has to run to live, and so he gets to play very purposeful moves in between yours.

The sole virtue of 41 is that it continues in the direction that 39 set. So, maybe we could lay blame on move 39.

At 39, I might have tried F12. It pushes a weak white group toward your relatively strong D8 group. Black would love to be able to play F4 in sente.

Move 51 brings the issue into focus. If you were going to play a defensive move low on the right side in gote, what was the point of J14?

Shaddy · #3

I dislike 43, I think it should be some kind of extension on the bottom.

Tooveli · #4

Instead of 43 how about S12 with the plan depending on the answer
S11 Q11 R11 P9
or S12 R11 K17 (aiming at M11)

Uberdude · #5

Shaddy wrote:

I dislike 43, I think it should be some kind of extension on the bottom.

I did consider extending, say to j3/j4 as it is a wide place of the board, but as both black and white have low strong stones (e3 and o3) I decided it wasn't so interesting and that white's potential in the centre was most important, hence my reduction at n6. I envisaged the following sequence which I thought good for white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm43 White develops centre $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X 9 X 2 . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . 8 X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . 0 . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . O . . . . . 5 6 4 . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm53 Good for white I think $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X X X O . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . O . 7 . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . 1 . O . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . O . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , 5 3 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I suppose black could resist by not defending at b12 and instead jump into the centre at n6, but then white will attack the top left stones at c13. If white is afraid of this black resistance he could always just play at n5 himself straight after black's j3 without all those preparatory moves at the top: even if black then gets to jump to L14 white is building quite a lot. However I suppose if black can get L14 in sente against white's middle then k17 builds quite a nice top side for black. But maybe white doesn't answer at m12 (or thereabouts, k13 k14 m13 seems another way) and instead just jumps to k17 to make some points and destroy blacks. It's not clear black's followup from L14 is particularly devastating.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm43 White plays n5 immediately $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . 9 . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . 7 . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 8 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , 5 3 . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another idea is white plays the n5 to l4 sequence first, which retains sente, and then starts the maneouveres on the top (the q16 probe and the L14 cap), the idea being those exchanges have already benefitted white as next black can only jump in to k6 which isn't as good as n6.

Celebrir · #6

What about M11 at move 53 and try to gain something while attacking before w gets N8 ?

Uberdude · #7

Tooveli wrote:

Instead of 43 how about S12 with the plan depending on the answer
S11 Q11 R11 P9
or S12 R11 K17 (aiming at M11)

Surely white will answer at s11, that looks far more valuable to me than black's peep kikashi at q11. That white can block against this push is the whole point of choosing the q6 connection to end up with a stone at r10. I suppose if white then answers p9 at q8 black is happy to have got a stone in the middle for free, but where next? Maybe white probes at q4 before defending at q8, the point being if black defends at p4 then white cuts and gets s6 in sente so no longer needs to defend against black's threat of r8 (answer at r9). If black defends at r3 then white aims at m3 (but was that exchange actually good, as a downside it means the weakness of n6 that happened in the game is reduced).

The only other choice I would consider after black s11 is tenuki if you think it is too early, say as below (as you can see I'm obsessed with n5, it feels the key area of the board to me). Black takes immediate profit (maybe he doesn't cut at q12 right away?) and white develops the centre. I don't know who I prefer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm43 White develops centre $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . b . . . . a O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 O X . | $$ | . c . O . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 O 1 . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . O . . . . . 4 3 5 . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . 6 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@Joaz, interesting point about jumping helping white more than black. I will respond later when I've thought more about it and have time for a longer answer

.

Uberdude · #8

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Black looks good up through 38. With 39, 41, and 43 the direction of play seems too casual. By move 54, one gets the feeling that white has equalized on the board and is ahead by komi.

41: It is not clear to me what you get out of playing at J14. The strong white stone at G17 renders much of the top side uninteresting, so this stone doesn't do much northward. To the south, you are pushing from behind ( although from two spaces away ) so there seems little southward benefit. And you can connect underneath any time with C12 or make eye space with B13, so running is not urgent. White, OTOH, has to run to live, and so he gets to play very purposeful moves in between yours.

The sole virtue of 41 is that it continues in the direction that 39 set. So, maybe we could lay blame on move 39.

At 39, I might have tried F12. It pushes a weak white group toward your relatively strong D8 group. Black would love to be able to play F4 in sente.

Move 51 brings the issue into focus. If you were going to play a defensive move low on the right side in gote, what was the point of J14?

At move 39 white has just reinforced at g17 which prepares an attack on black's top left group. In order to understand white's threatened attack let's look at what happens if black tenukis (to j3 for example below). I expected white would attack by removing the b12 connection. The first way to do this is playing c13 which is a key shape point and stops black connecting, but then black has sente to run out. Due to g17 black can't push on the top to make shape, so if g15 white attacks the shape at g13 and black can't run with a 1 point jump or white cuts at the waist at a. To avoid this bad shape black could run at g14 instead of g15.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm39 Attack 1, prevent connection in gote $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . a 3 . 5 . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . 2 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The other way for white, and one which scared me rather more, was preventing the b12 connection in sente with the c11 kick (if black doesn't extend white gets very powerful shape playing there) and then surrounding the group. Black can play c13 in this shape to make some eyespace, but I don't like getting surrounded like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm39 Attack 2, prevent connection in sente then surround $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . 1 . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I concluded that tenuki was not a good idea as white gains too much by attacking black, and therefore black should defend his group (which could also attack white's d12 group). The simplest way to do this is simply by connecting at b12, which is a big move itself in terms of yose as it connects two black groups and prevents white getting yose both sides. But I rejected this as too slow and expected white would tenuki. It also makes white's stones at d12 and e11 lighter as should black capture them b12 becomes a wasted move, just as an example in the following diagram I think white is better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm39 b12 slow $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 7 . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . 4 . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Therefore I decided that rather than defending at b12 I should ask white if he wants to save the e11 group first and jump out myself, threatening the cap and capturing the white group without wasting a move at b12. White naturally jumps out too. It is true that black's jumps don't build much due to white's strength at g17, whereas white's jumps do develop the centre, but black's jumps do provide safety for black's group and mean he no longer fears white attacking his group as in the first two diagrams.

Ok, now to Joaz's suggestion of f12. One answer would be e13 and then black g15. I don't know what to expect next, both have bad shape. But for the sake of the argument let's imagine the below sequence which also feels fairly natural:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm39 One possible f12 sequence $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . 1 3 5 7 . 9 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O 2 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . 8 . 0 . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a fairly similar sequence to what happened in the game in that both players jump into the centre with white ahead of black and black ends with sente to play n6 if he so wishes. However, a big difference is rather than jumps both players have solid walls. However, I think with sequence is worse for black than the game as black's solid wall is facing the strong g17 so is not very useful, whereas white's solid wall is facing the centre which is useful. For one thing it means black loses the g9 shape attack possibility I had in the game. As another thing this wall being thick means the aji I used in the game to live with my central group would not be there so I would probably have died.

I found a pro game with the same shape to help me analyze this game. White is Sakatai Eio 9d, black is Rin Kaiho 9d from 1969, 6th Pro Best Ten Final, game 2, 1969-04-17, white won by 8.5. I rotated the board to align with my game. The left hand side of the board is identical (and the move order was the same), the right side is similar in that black has both corners and white has a group in a middle. They both jumped out, the same as in my game. So although the other side of the board does make a bit of a difference, I don't think my moves can be that bad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm29 Sakata vs Rin part 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next black played the rather funky jump to m13. My understanding of this move is it makes miai of the cap at m11 and surrounding territory on the top side at k17. One difference that should be noted from my game is that black's potential on the top side in this game is greater as black's shimari in the top right is facing along the top side and black has moves like r13 or q12 to expand the moyo, whereas in my game white had some influence in the r13 area which reduce black's potential on the top side. White doesn't help his centre group (Sakata is good at sabaki) so just takes profit at L16 which also stops black profiting at k17. He also ignores the m11 cap to profit at r13. Black decides he needs to make some profit for himself at n17 which also aims at the k17 cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm33 Sakata vs Rin part 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O . 4 . . . 9 . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X X . . 0 3 , 2 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O 8 O . 5 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White defends, which induces black to defend the thinness at L14. White then separates the black groups at b12 (defending by creating attacking possibilities and some eyespace on the side). Black then attacks at the shape point of g9 (which does support my view that this was a key shape point).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm43 Sakata vs Rin part 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O 0 O . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X X . 9 O X , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . | $$ | . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O O O . X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . 6 4 . X . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 3 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sakata then tenukis again from his central group to take profit at h3 (it must be so annoying to play him!) and black resumes the attack on the central group, which white then defends.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm53 Sakata vs Rin part 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O O O . . . X . . X . . . | $$ | . X O X X . X O X , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O O O . X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . X . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O . . 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 7 5 8 0 . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 9 . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . 2 . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So in the end white's group survived and he took profit several times in the fight and he won the game by 8.5. So what lessons to learn from this game and what parallels to draw to my game? Were my jumps out bad? Maybe they were bad, Rin did lose afterall, but I don't think I mind too much if I make 9p mistakes !

Joaz Banbeck · #9

I agree that you don't have time to play 39 on the lower side, and that 39 is best used to improve the health of your upper left group. I'm suggesting leaning instead of running.

Uberdude · **#10**

Yes, looking at white's attacks was a prelude to looking at how to defend. I've now edited my post to include that.

Uberdude · **#11**

Remi Coulom has kindly analysed this game with Crazy Stone at http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/~coulo ... index.html

I will study this and write up my conclusions later...

Uberdude · **#12**

One sharp tactic Crazystone found was r8. I was aware that this invasion still exists in that shape (something Qing Du Chinese 6d who was in UK for a bit showed me) as it is hard for white to answer in a way that doesn't give black some kikashi (e.g. making s6 sente). I did consider it at one point, maybe the crucial move 43, but decided white had a good answer at p8 at that time. It suggested this many times and often I think it's not so good, but on move 66 (http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/~coulo ... is-66.html) it is a very nice idea. CS seems to suggest a trade I didn't even consider, namely black kills r10 if white kills the corner. This didn't even occur to me. The kill on r10 utilises the honte move I played at L12. And if white doesn't accept the trade, it means I no longer suffer the painful squeeze in the corner I did in the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm67 Clever bot $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . X . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . O . O . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . X . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . O . . O O O . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . O . 3 . 1 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . O . X . . . X 2 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

CS then says white s6, so what is black's resistance if white tries to capture the corner. It seems to be the tesuji at r7 thanks to r8 (my reading now). Obviously if white 79 at s6 then black s9 and r10 should be dead. So if white avoids that black gains some crucial liberties in the corner and doesn't get squeezed like in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm74 Bot's plan? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . X . | $$ | . O O O . O O . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . X O X X . . . . O . O . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . . X . X . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . X . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . O . . O O O . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . O . X 7 X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 5 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O O 6 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O 8 X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . O . X . . . X O X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It also says white's g10 (which I considered suspect) was the worst move of the game. Instead white should push through at j9. At the time I thought, and presumably vitality too, that pushing through gave me various sente moves which meant I could live, and therefore vitality held back to go for the kill. In fact he could win by just taking profit, but CS seems to suggest he could even win the semeai.

Uberdude · **#13**

I asked Guo Juan 5p about this in a KGS+ lesson. She said n6 was good, and the g14 jumps were fine too.

Magicwand · **#14**

i didnt want to make any comment on this game..but i changed my mind.

26: i dont like this because..white playing influence and now diviate from its original plan.. I would play F16 or G17.
34: i dont like this becasue next few sequence is obvious and too good for black. i will never give my opponent that good of shape.
38: too slow. how about F8?
42: too plain and tasteless. how about K13 or probe on the side before you jump to stop him connect or something to change the flow. white is already down and without any variance white will lose.

it seems that you are trying to search answers after you lost the grip of the game.

illluck · **#15**

@Magicwand: I think Uberdude is black, but it's interesting that you felt that black was ahead.

Tough OGS game

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