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 Post subject: Re: Also lost in the endgame? :)
Post #21 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:24 pm 
Honinbo

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jts wrote:
Bill (and/or Araban), how would you compare these two?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . 6 B 1 . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . , . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O d e |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . 4 X 1 . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . , . . . . . X 3 a b |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O . B . . . X . c . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(What I'm specifically asking is, is there something wrong with one of the moves that makes these two positions transpositions? Because it seems that once W gets Bill's :w3: fighting that ko rather becomes rather hard for B.)

ps- Araban, what's the new avatar from?


In the first diagram, :w5: is obviously aji keshi. :)

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— Winona Adkins

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 Post subject: Re: Also lost in the endgame? :)
Post #22 Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:17 pm 
Gosei
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If the intent is to take the corner, then there is no difference and it's not aji keshi because you'll need the exchange either way to play :w7: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . 6 B 1 . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . , . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O . X . . . X . 7 . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I had in mind (I should have just put :w7: in the original diagram). Thinking about it though, if White wants to run rather than live, then making the exchange is indeed aji keshi and it's best to leave that exchange so that the push is more effective:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . 7 5 3 . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . 6 2 O . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Compare if the exchange was already made:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . 2 1 O . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And the avatar is from Nichijou, the 2011 Azumanga Daioh.

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