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Offline glyps
 Post subject: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #1 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:49 am 
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Attachment:
Ades-AKANE44111-2.sgf [5.92 KiB]
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after playing couple games after a long brake
this is the game that interest me the most.. as my rank strangely boost up
so would someone analyze/review the game for me? i hope i got good lesson from this game

Ades/Me (W) vs (B)


Last edited by glyps on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #2 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:14 am 
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The game was Ades, W, 11k, versus AKANE44111, B, 12k.

Your username here is glyps, which is neither. 11k and 12k are very close.

Were you Ades ? You want to think about from the audience's (forum members' ) perspective: we don't know whether you were B or W.
Just like we learn from Go, you want to also think from the other person's perspective.
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Offline glyps
 Post subject: Re:
Post #3 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:25 am 
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EdLee wrote:
The game was Ades, W, 11k, versus AKANE44111, B, 12k.

Your username here is glyps, which is neither. 11k and 12k are very close.

Were you Ades ?


yes, i changed my game id, sorry for not adding that info earlier :)
thanks for the review btw, im very grateful :bow:


Last edited by glyps on Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #4 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:29 am 
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Hi glyps, Ades,

When you 'quote' a post, you don't need to include the entire SGF.

Again: think from the audience's (forum members' ) perspective.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #5 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:30 am 
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Hi glyps, Ades,

You're welcome. You may want to use the Preview button to preview your post before you Submit --
take a look at your post, look at it from the audience's perspective. (Then you probably would not include the SGF. :) )
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Offline glyps
 Post subject: Re:
Post #6 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:32 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Hi glyps, Ades,

When you 'quote' a post, you don't need to include the entire SGF.

Again: think from the audience's (forum members' ) perspective.


ah yea, that was my mistake, i'll remove it by now
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #7 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 am 
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Are you white or black in the game?
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Offline glyps
 Post subject: Re: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #8 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:44 am 
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skydyr wrote:
Are you white or black in the game?


im white.. i already write it out there just now

"Ades/Me (W) vs (B)"
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Offline oca
 Post subject: Re: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #9 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:24 am 
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@edLee
on move 19 : "Wrong shape. This allows W to connect under with (a). See var."

As this was not direcly obvious to see at my level (or at least for me :oops: ), I tryied to prove that for myself and came with the following sequence. Are they correct or am I missing something ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Wrong shape, so W can connect
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X 4 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W B shape is stronger, W can't connect.
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W try 2 - W still can't connect
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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Offline EdLee
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Post #10 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:49 am 
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Hi oca, Let's look at all 3 of your variations, one by one. :)
oca wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X 4 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
If W ataris with :w5: in your variation, did you consider :b6: and :b8: ?
Notice the :wc: string is suddenly down to only 2 liberties !
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X 4 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 8 O W O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . ? ? 6 1 2 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Can you find a better local move than your :w5: atari ?
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Offline EdLee
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Post #11 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:54 am 
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Hi oca,

In your second variation, both :b4: and :w5: are mistakes.
- Can you find the correct move for :b4: ?
- Given your wrong :b4:, find a better reply for W:
oca wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #12 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:06 am 
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Hi oca,

Your third variation is interesting. Did you consider if W resists with :w7: at (a) ?
Locally, it does look terrible for W. But, globally, we need to look at the :bc: group.
Can you find another move for :b4: ?
oca wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W try 2
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X B X . a . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline oca
 Post subject: Re:
Post #13 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:27 am 
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EdLee wrote:
...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X 4 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 8 O W O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . ? ? 6 1 2 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Can you find a better local move than your :w5: atari ?


I will try my previous :w5: at :w1: instead of (a)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W WHITE MUST CONNECT - TRY 2
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X O O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 4 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . a . . 6 . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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Offline EdLee
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Post #14 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:12 am 
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Hi oca,
oca wrote:
I will try my previous :w5: at :w1: instead of (a)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X O O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 4 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . a . . 6 . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Did you consider the very simple connect :w1: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline oca
 Post subject: Re:
Post #15 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:14 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Did you consider the very simple connect :w1: ?

houps... looks like I'm still overthinking ;-) ...

EdLee wrote:
In your second variation, both :b4: and :w5: are mistakes.
- Can you find the correct move for :b4: ?


I will play that :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee wrote:
Given your wrong :b4:, find a better reply for W:

I will play :w5: ... I hesitated with (a) but :wc: seems more in danger for me than the bottom right corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 O W O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 2 a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #16 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:58 am 
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Back to basics. Capturing stones on the second line.

Black to play and capture the white stone:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Black to play and capture the white stone:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Black to play and capture the white stone:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


White to play and save the white stone:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . , . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

This post by Uberdude was liked by: EdLee
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Offline oca
 Post subject: Re: A Game Vs. 12k
Post #17 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:24 am 
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Uberdude, Thanks for the electroshock...

so of course
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O X X X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Time for a break I suppose ;-)

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Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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