Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10995		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  tekesta [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
I took 4 stones as black against COSUMI and lost by 1 point. Please comment. Much obliged in advance.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi tekesta, is COSUMI a program ? What was the time setting for this game ?
( Or: approx. how many seconds on average did you spend on each move ? )
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi tekesta,

:b4: did you consider F4, the one-space jump instead ?

:b6: C3 is very big. Can you name one reason ?

:b10: did you notice this shape has some weakness -- for example, did you think about what happens if W cuts at H5 or G5 ?

:w15: ridiculous.
:b16: good. Only move. Broken shape for W.

:w21: soft. W could first hane at F12; then connect here.

:b30: connect at F14. (Don't follow your opponent around. Not all his tenukis are good; neither are yours. In this case, there's a fight going on upper left
corner, he tenuki'd, and you follow him. So your :b30: is like taking
a vacation/holiday in the middle of a battle! :) )

:b48: hane at S6.

:b54: shape problems. What's your plan if :w55: at P16 ?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
You had a won game at move 230, but threw away 3 points at the end.

Go to move 228.
Author:  tekesta [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi tekesta, is COSUMI a program ? What was the time setting for this game ?
( Or: approx. how many seconds on average did you spend on each move ? )
COSUMI is an online Go-playing engine. It can be found at: http://www.cosumi.net

There is no time limit in this game. I do play a bit more cautiously than before, averaging about 10-15 seconds per move, but I still have some ways to go before acquiring the habit of waiting 30-60 seconds before placing a stone.
Author:  tekesta [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi tekesta,

:b4: did you consider F4, the one-space jump instead ?
Just a bit of experimentation on my part. Perhaps I underestimated the strength of that White 1-point jump.

Quote:
:b6: C3 is very big. Can you name one reason ?
No, I can't name any. I was just sticking to expanding the influence of the handi stones. A white stone at K16 or K17 would reduce the influence of D16 and Q16. Would following up immediately with :b8: at Q10 have made any significant difference, apart from slightly thicker influence?

Quote:
:b10: did you notice this shape has some weakness -- for example, did you think about what happens if W cuts at H5 or G5 ?
No, I did not. I've not much experience to know that bit, but thanks for the heads-up. Would playing this move at G6 have been better? My main objective was to separate the white stones whenever possible. Allowing an arc of white stones there would've set me back, I think; I don't yet have the fighting skills needed to come back from, say, a 20-point deficit in the opening.

Quote:
:w15: ridiculous.
Maximum difficulty level of COSUMI is probably 5k or shodan.
Quote:
:b16: good. Only move. Broken shape for W.
I often see this in pro games.

Quote:
:w21: soft. W could first hane at F12; then connect here.
Standard reply to an attachment. I was feeling a bit nervous about D12.
Quote:
:b30: connect at F14.
Should've done that. I am learning how to attack weak stones. Not quite there with whole-board thinking :oops:

Quote:
:b48: hane at S6.
I was afraid of the white cut at Q5

Quote:
:b54: shape problems. What's your plan if :w55: at P16 ?
Hmm. Perhaps O16 would've been safer? Or peep at P15, white connect at P14, then black O15 or N16? That P16 attachment would be a pain in the neck...
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
tekesta wrote:
Quote:
:b6: C3 is very big. Can you name one reason ?
No, I can't name any. I was just sticking to expanding the influence of the handi stones.
Ah, I see. Hint questions:

- Is the W group settled ? ( No. )
- Is your B group settled ? ( No. )
- If W gets C3 first, does it help W settle his group ? ( Yes. )
- If W gets C3 first, does it mean more points for W locally ? ( Yes. )
- If W gets C3 first, does it make your B group even weaker ? ( Yes. )
- In other words, C3 helps W settle WITH more points, and hurts B ? ( Yes. )
- If B gets C3 first, does it help you settle your B group ? ( Yes. )
- If B gets C3 first, does it mean more points for B locally ? ( Yes. )
- If B gets C3 first, does it make W even weaker ? ( Yes. )
- In other words, C3 makes B stronger WITH points, and hurts W ? ( Yes. )
- So C3 is a shared vital point, wanted by both B and W ? ( Yes! )
- Are there any other weak groups elsewhere on the board ? ( No. )


Your :b6: at K16 is a big move, too; you didn't lose the game here.
It's difficult for you to compare the value of C3 versus K16.
But just think about the above questions, just get a feeling.
Over time, with more experience, you'll appreciate C3.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
The question was asked before (in another topic) but does anybody know what engine the COSUMI site is using? I went to the site but not informative.

The reason to ask this question is that all of us who are using a computer opponent (a bot at a site) have to consider whether:
1) This bot would run on our own hardware.
2) This bot available to us.

If the answer to both of those is yes, no particularly good reason to use the site. Playing bots via the internet should be for bots we can't run at home.
Author:  oren [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
Mike Novack wrote:
If the answer to both of those is yes, no particularly good reason to use the site. Playing bots via the internet should be for bots we can't run at home.


I've noticed a lot of people just like the convenience of jumping on the go servers and playing bots. There is nothing strange about that to me.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
oren wrote:
I've noticed a lot of people just like the convenience of jumping on the go servers and playing bots. There is nothing strange about that to me.


Could you explain that?

I did say the answer would have to be yes to both questions. I can easily understand why if the hardware had limited power, plenty to connect to a web site and play against the bot there but not enough to run the bot on the machine.

But how more convenient to get an internet connection and get to a site and start a game there than to simply start a program on one's machine?

The one time inconvenience of downloading and installing the program?
Author:  oren [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4-stone handi, lost by 1 pt.
Mike Novack wrote:
But how more convenient to get an internet connection and get to a site and start a game there than to simply start a program on one's machine?


Hop on kgs and play a bot takes a couple seconds. You can do the same elsewhere. Why bother installing something when you don't have to? I don't bother playing bots at all, but I know lots of people who do this.
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi tekesta,
tekesta wrote:
Quote:
:b16: good. Only move. Broken shape for W.
I often see this in pro games.
I'm not sure what you meant by this.
It's highly unlikely you see this situation "often in pro games."
I think you're thinking of something else.
tekesta wrote:
Quote:
:b48: hane at S6.
I was afraid of the white cut at Q5
Right, so what happens after W cuts at Q5 ? Study it.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/