Life In 19x19 :: 10 k vs 9 k game

Some thoughts:

:b19:

capturing the two stones is fine.

At :b25:

you may want to play on the star point instead, since it has a better relationship to the upper right. The idea is fine though.

:b29:

is fine and :b31:

could be either of your move and P18. Not sure I like O15 as much.

At :b37:

the idea behind your move is fine, but when white contacts your stone, it's usually urgent. If you don't want to give white the local advantage there, you need to make sure you have a followup for your move or white will just get free forcing moves as in the game. Black is strong enough there that you could consider just R14, looking to give white no momentum at all. Ideally, you'll be able to threaten one of the side groups with the three stones later in such a way as to be able to make a move that's sente against both sides.

By :b45:

white's group is pretty strong, which means black's three stones have been weakened. If you can get A or something like it to work, that would be ideal. One spot to the right of it has potential, at least (N18). The game move turned out okay, but maybe just turning at P10 was good too.

At :b51, black needs to play one line higher at S6 and then should be connected enough.

:b57:

doesn't work, so don't play it. Just T9 is fine. white is sealed in and small, and you have sente moves against the group.

For the later fight:

At :b91:

not playing Q19 is asking for trouble, and your stones look okay if you play it.

At 139, just net white with F7.

At 155, drop to the second line and white's dead as a doornail.

At 163 again, atari at L1 and white is cut and dead.

At 217, take L19 to prevent ko, and you can at least get seki.

The moral is not to blindly follow your opponent around. there are quite a few points where the right move would cause white to collapse, if you look away from where white just played to where the weaknesses are.

Author:	skydyr [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
Some thoughts: capturing the two stones is fine. At you may want to play on the star point instead, since it has a better relationship to the upper right. The idea is fine though. is fine and could be either of your move and P18. Not sure I like O15 as much. At the idea behind your move is fine, but when white contacts your stone, it's usually urgent. If you don't want to give white the local advantage there, you need to make sure you have a followup for your move or white will just get free forcing moves as in the game. Black is strong enough there that you could consider just R14, looking to give white no momentum at all. Ideally, you'll be able to threaten one of the side groups with the three stones later in such a way as to be able to make a move that's sente against both sides. By white's group is pretty strong, which means black's three stones have been weakened. If you can get A or something like it to work, that would be ideal. One spot to the right of it has potential, at least (N18). The game move turned out okay, but maybe just turning at P10 was good too. At :b51, black needs to play one line higher at S6 and then should be connected enough. doesn't work, so don't play it. Just T9 is fine. white is sealed in and small, and you have sente moves against the group. For the later fight: At not playing Q19 is asking for trouble, and your stones look okay if you play it. At 139, just net white with F7. At 155, drop to the second line and white's dead as a doornail. At 163 again, atari at L1 and white is cut and dead. At 217, take L19 to prevent ko, and you can at least get seki. The moral is not to blindly follow your opponent around. there are quite a few points where the right move would cause white to collapse, if you look away from where white just played to where the weaknesses are.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game

Author:	mitsun [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
Two basic principles: 1) Attack from strength 2) Surround before killing The LR corner result was extremely good for B; no need to look for something better. B now has a substantial lead. (N15) is a little off the mark. Your suggestions A or B would be better, but lead to complicated fighting. Simply extending to P14 would also be fine -- this move leaves the impression that W is butting his head against a stone wall. Keeping your own positions strong during an attack is important. Letting W atari at P14 in sente should be distressing. Later W might be able to cut off the N15 stone, meaning he has some counter-attack chances in this fight. is aji-keshi, forcing W to defend a weak cutting point, for little or no gain. After W connects, is is more difficult than before to surround this group. is the vital point in this shape, but it is too early to think about killing. Much better would be to enclose W with a move around P6, threatening to kill. If W then defends at S5, you should be very happy with the exchange. (Sometimes it is good to take away the base of a group, forcing it to run, but here I see no clear gain from a running attack. On the other hand, making good center thickness in sente represents a clear gain.) is the vital point in this shape, but it is too early to think about killing. W can still jump to L14 and escape into the center, or he can play O15 to cut off the N15 stone and fight. In either case, it is not clear what B has gained from the attack. Much better is to patiently wait for an opportunity to play N18 as a killing move. If B strengthens the center to the point where W becomes enclosed, he will have to play N18 in gote to live. That would be a fine result for B. was a great opportunity to play O13, enclosing the side W group. The cut at O12 looks dangerous, but B can handle it (best is N12-O11-P11). After being enclosed, W will have to live in gote (please read it out and see if you agree), so B makes great center strength in sente. Letting W break through this enclosure with O13 gives W fighting chances. Of course if you read that L15 kills the top group, then ignore the above, since killing that group ends the game. And in fact, you did kill that group -- well done. But that is a matter of reading, not strategy.

Author:	PlaySlow [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
skydyr wrote: Some thoughts: capturing the two stones is fine. At you may want to play on the star point instead, since it has a better relationship to the upper right. The idea is fine though. is fine and could be either of your move and P18. Not sure I like O15 as much. At the idea behind your move is fine, but when white contacts your stone, it's usually urgent. If you don't want to give white the local advantage there, you need to make sure you have a followup for your move or white will just get free forcing moves as in the game. Black is strong enough there that you could consider just R14, looking to give white no momentum at all. Ideally, you'll be able to threaten one of the side groups with the three stones later in such a way as to be able to make a move that's sente against both sides. By white's group is pretty strong, which means black's three stones have been weakened. If you can get A or something like it to work, that would be ideal. One spot to the right of it has potential, at least (N18). The game move turned out okay, but maybe just turning at P10 was good too. At :b51, black needs to play one line higher at S6 and then should be connected enough. doesn't work, so don't play it. Just T9 is fine. white is sealed in and small, and you have sente moves against the group. For the later fight: At not playing Q19 is asking for trouble, and your stones look okay if you play it. At 139, just net white with F7. At 155, drop to the second line and white's dead as a doornail. At 163 again, atari at L1 and white is cut and dead. At 217, take L19 to prevent ko, and you can at least get seki. The moral is not to blindly follow your opponent around. there are quite a few points where the right move would cause white to collapse, if you look away from where white just played to where the weaknesses are. I got a question about playing 51 to S6, if white answers at S7, black dies there and cannot connect, or am i reading it wrong? By the way thank you very much for comments:)

Author:	PlaySlow [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
Thank you Joaz and Mitsun for your comments and insights, they are very helpful. I also get the feeling that i should improve my reading as well, because i could not find White lives in Gote (from Mitsun's comment) very easily. I forget where i put imaginary stones after move 5-6 generally and start reading sequence again. Then time runs out:) I hope simply focusing Tsumego/Tesuji problems would help with that. I feel i cannot read deeper than 8 moves and i cannot read them fast

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

10 k vs 9 k game http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12547	Page 1 of 1

Author:	skydyr [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
PlaySlow wrote: skydyr wrote: At :b51, black needs to play one line higher at S6 and then should be connected enough. I got a question about playing 51 to S6, if white answers at S7, black dies there and cannot connect, or am i reading it wrong? By the way thank you very much for comments:) Well, I said connected enough, not connected Basically, depending on white's response you can either connect out or reduce white to one eye locally, forcing white to run.

Author:	PlaySlow [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
@skydyr Now i understand:)

Author:	skydyr [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
In retrospect, though, sealing and connecting from the outside is better than anything you could play on the inside.

Author:	Jhyn [ Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 10 k vs 9 k game
skydyr wrote: In retrospect, though, sealing and connecting from the outside is better than anything you could play on the inside. I agree and I would seal (maybe O7?) as it helps the center right group as well. If you don't it might be too easy for the white group to go out threatening it. Athought you have influence at the bottom I would then approach the bottom left corner from the direction of D6.

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