I am black at this game.



My biggest trouble at this game is that I am seeing white building a lot of influence, and I do not know what is the best way to reduce it. My "invasion" at left is bad (as it leads to the death of the lower left corner, very bad), and my invasion at bottom is also bad, as it leads to losing the lower right corner. However, I did that because I am worried that I will be sealed in by white -- although I was still sealed in at the end.

Some specific questions:

* W15 should be at G15 in the joseki, but I do not know what should I do to handle this deviation? Push through at F16 and then come back at E17?
* I was not sure where to play at B26. I ended up playing at M4 because I am thinking maybe I will be able to invade at H4 later -- of course, this invasion ended up getting me a lot of trouble.
* B28: my initial thought is to connect at D6, but then white will have very good influence and I'll be sealed in. So I tried to break through by D9... which ended up badly (because I lost corner while taking care of the left group.)
* B34: if I come back to the corner by playing at the position B4, would the left group die?
* I was surprised by the attachment at W53. How should I respond to that?
* I tried to reinforce the corner at B62. Would there be better choice?
* B64: I played there because I am worried that white would seal in that side. Unfortunately, that give white a shape point when he/she played at W67. What should I do here instead?
* B78: I think about cutting at O6, but it looks like that white can happily sacrifice some stone and seal me in. So I am not sure what I should do -- I ended up trying to play move to support an invasion at H4... and of course it didn't work out too well.
* B104 I thought about playing at L5 instead, but it seems that will put my bottom group at great danger. Is my assessment correct?
* B106: I want to do some reducing... and of course, my choice of move is bad again. What should I play?
* B120: If only the cut would work.... sigh.....


Btw, at what point of the game did I completely lose the advantage of the two handicap stones?

Hi GoStudent,

this shape feels a little funny.
( W D14 is honte, but perhaps a bit slow. )

- this exchange seems to help W.

This shape has problems, which W exploits immediately.

This is impossible. Tenuki is out of the question.
You asked when you lost your 2-stone advantage.
A better question is to look at all your mistakes,
and learn from each. Like this tenuki is impossible.

Your corner is dead shape. Huge loss, because of - .

Very slow, almost a pass. You asked about the 2-stone handicap --
you basically lost a move here, completely voluntarily.
See (*) below.
( R10 neighborhood is the last big open area. )

You should not have been surprised. You took high with --
of course W cannot allow you to turn it all into cash.
When you played high with , you were practically forcing W to come in and fight.
That's the meaning of your high .
If that was not your plan, you should've played low, taking cash.

Problem with this drop is you cannot resist when W turns with .
If you simply connect with , then if W still turns, you can hane.
Big difference.

Lack of fighting spirit. Did you consider and read the double hane ?

Connect solidly is one option.
If you make the tiger's mouth, it's better yose.

How many other variations did you read here.
Did you also consider the attach at o8 ?

How many other variations did you read here.
Did you also consider the two local hanes ?

( For , , I'm not questioning your moves.
I don't know what's the best local sequence for B.
The questions are rhetorical -- just consider how much you read in this local fight. )

What's your plan here ? If you want to reduce W, just K5.

The local result here is the same as your tenuki.

See (*) below.

For example: please read Toothpaste --

Study and start to understand about 'broken shapes' --
that's the main reason behind your tenuki,
and the disastrous result for B by the time of .(*) In this particular game, this question is not very meaningful.
Rather, study your mistakes. Try to understand the gaps in your Go knowledge.

Is there a typo here ? Not sure what you mean.Not a big problem.
Try to get a sense of which are your biggest problems.
For example: your tenuki, and the disastrous result by are
much more severe than where to play -- it's almost a non-issue by comparison.
Passing at is also a much bigger mistake than where to play .

Thank you for the feedback.



When I was playing the game, I actually know that and are bad moves. However, I was hoping that I can reduce loss by making those moves -- if I did not play that way, my left group and my bottom group will die, and during the game I thought this is worst.

Am I correct in this estimation? Thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean:
is connect at C15, that's joseki.
W played the joseki move in the game: connect at C15.

What do you mean ?

gostudent, how about making a diagram with http://www.hiddema.nl/diagrammer/ to show what you mean? (I too am baffled by your co-ordinates).

Clearly, he means instead of

Ah, that makes more sense. I thought he might be talking about move 9, in which white blocked the wrong side. White should play d17 to make sense of his 2 top side stones. Move 17 at g15 would be one of the local continuations from this joseki (ignoring white's k16 stone) but is a favourite bad move of kyu players and black can just happily answer at g17 and it's a good exchange for black, not white (white's shape is still weak after it with many bad ajis inside his fake territory/moyo). If white wanted to continue here then f16 push may actually be best, trying to make sense of the k16 stone. I do not think of move 17 as a deviation from correct play, it is probably better than what gostudent thought of as the "correct joseki" move at g15. I would probably just play g17, white extend, then tenuki, as he did. His choice of tenuki to r5 might be bad though, I would think about white's moyo more, maybe k4 or c7 or q5.

My bad -- I am indeed talking about , not . Sorry for the confusion.

I saw the move G15 from common joseki dictionary.

Also thank you for pointing out may be wrong -- I am wondering what I can do to limit white moyo, and I should have worried about that much earlier.

No one said that is bad, and it seems fine to me. is also a decent move if you're worried about white making a big moyo at that point, though making the small knight's jump may be a bit more secure and has a nice followup of the two space jump up the left side if white tries to pressure the corner from the bottom. To be honest, though, I don't feel like white has spectacular potential in the center, as it's still quite open and black has strong groups to back up any reduction or invasion later.

Edit:
Notice that after black has all 4 corners. There is a jokey proverb about this, that if you have all 4 corners you should resign, and if you have none, you should resign. In all honesty, though, it can be quite equal if you approach the game correctly. At this point, white's only real option for territory is the big moyo along with some on the top and bottom, so a good reduction move in the very unconsolidated center could be more than enough to win.

I agree that is not a bad move, but it would not occur to me in this position. All of Uberdude's suggestions are good, as is skydyr's suggestion of C-06.

_________________
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I would like to comment on 44. This was an extremely unfortunate play IMHO and I think that it hasn't been mentioned yet.

After Black exchanges 42 for 43 (a very dangerous play by White), Black plays 44 in the upper left, inducing White to play 45. White 45 patches up the gaping hole in White's wall and suddenly the center starts to look very promising for White. Black compounded things by ending in gote with 48 but I think the real damage was done with 44.

I think that pushing at 1 below, threatening to hane at the head of three stones is the only move here. If White patches the hole in the upper wall, Black gets his hane and dominates the center while still holding three out of four corners.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Promising for Black.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X X . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O 2 O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . 5 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if White extends, Black just pushes again. Now if White extends a second time (see below), Black pushes through the gap at the top and cuts. It seems like Black can capture something, even if White lives.

So White has to connect instead of extending and Black is able to hane at the head of four stones instead of three. The variation below would have been a great success compared to the game.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

Also notice Black 50 in the game. When White played 49, Black can answer with 2 below. If White continues with 3 (White 51 in the game), there is a flower-viewing ko in the corner as shown below. However, if White blocks in the corner instead of 3, Black gets to play at 3 first, preventing White from connecting so easily in the center and leaving the three White stones there still subject to attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 8 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | 4 O O X . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 6 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21