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Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13941		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Actorios [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
Happy new year to all !

I’ve recently reached and exceeded 1000 games and I have to admit that dan level is further away than I would have initially imagined (I'm 3k KGS currently). In 2017, I’d like to get a little away from repetitive fast play and get back to fewer and slower games but systematically reviewed in addition to regular go problems. Reverting to a stable 2k KGS by end of year would already be quite fulfilling.

I’d be glad to get some feedback on my latest game (I'm playing White). I went out of the fuseki in very bad shape with all 4 corners lost and few prospect in the center : basically, a very gloomy situation. I’d like to understand what went wrong and which critical moves I missed.

There are two positions I'd like to get feedback upon:
:w29: I thought P13 would be a key pivotal point but as a second tought, I probably couldn't ignore F10.
:w58: Fuseki is almost over and I feel very much behind: all corners were lost and I have very little prospective in the center. How did I get in such a position?

Any feedback would be most welcome.

Thank you !
Author:  dfan [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
A couple of general thoughts from someone around your rank, obviously not intended as definitive but because I'd like to piggyback on your question and get some feedback myself :)

I am not a big fan of the "star point double wing" that you complete with :w15: because after Black invades at the 3-3, one of the extension stones will feel a little out of place. Other possibilities I might consider for :w15: are D14 (dare Black to come in on the side, then attack), P13 (as you played later), D2 (such a big difference between Black and White playing here, and it makes F3 feel a little silly), H3, Q2 (too early?).

:w39: doesn't feel like the right spot. If Black kicks you with P3, you extend, and then he plays M3, I would feel pretty unhappy as White. I would probably still try one of the moves I mentioned in the last paragraph.

For :w41: I would dive into the corner right away. Instead Black got a big corner and you still have very little base.

I like the idea behind :w59: but I agree that White feels behind by now.
Author:  Gotraskhalana [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
I am not stronger than you, but I would have taken the corner at 41 when offered (which is an obvious fix for your complaint :-) ). And since you decided to run out, you should have done so at least at 63 ( I would have done it earlier).

69, 71 and 73 don't seem to be doing a lot.

I am not at ease with 28 as well, but the attach at 31 seems more wrong to me than the tenuki at 29.

Looking forward to more competent reviews.
Author:  ez4u [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
I would rate 33 the worst move of the game. Black 30 was an overplay with no good line connecting it to the center. The whole point here should be to separate the black stones. White 31 sets out to do that, however, 33 immediately reverses course and helps Black control the center while White connects loosely along the second line. White's position still has an open skirt in the upper left and the lower left corner is still open. White 33 should be the atari from the opposite side at E9 and connect at E10 with 35. That would leave Black with some eyeless stones on the left side and the center stone cut off. White would still be in the game. As it is I think Black is ahead after 39.

BTW make sure that you cut and past the entire text of your sgf file between the sgf tags. The fragment that you pasted not only yields the wrong move numbers but cannot be opened in another editor so no diagrams to illustrate comments. :sad:
Author:  Actorios [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
Thank you very much for your responses. I clearly didn't think enough about this move 33. It didn't even strike me when I reviewed it alone. I'll think about it.
Sorry for the truncated file. I used Smartgo on Mac to extract the SGF txt and I didn't know it wouldn't be complete.
Author:  DrStraw [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Failure in fuseki (3k KGS game)
w22 looks better at B24. Black will most likely capture the single stone but probably has to take gote to secure the group. Meanwhile, white gots a solid corner, which help to attack any black invasion at the top. With the sente white can then play C2. Afte C2 these is the invasion at H3 and if black prevents this (with F5) white can play M3. Other variations along this theme are possible, but C14 seems insipid to me.

F10 is not a good move and would be more effective at J13. G12 looks like a nice response. If you are going to play on the right I prefer Q13. Yes, Q13 can be cut off, but only by giving white a much stronger position above while leaving black lackluster on the right becuase R6 is low.

As already stated, C9 should be at E9. But once E9 is played then capture at B8 instead of connecting. Connecting does nothing for you because B13 is undercut.

Q2 must be at Q3, but I think an invasion at M3 in the first place was better. O5 is better that R2 and if black blocks play Q3 and P4.

wP3 is an uhgly move which does nothing: Q2 is not an important stone. Play M3.

Do not answer bC3. The corner is gone and you don't know which side you want to play on. Save it for later. There are much better points.


As for 1000 games to shodan, I think that is old advice which is no longer valid. Today's shodans are stronger than when that saying as coined 40 years ago. Also, shodan on what scale? KGS is one of the stronger ones.
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