Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Middle Game pointers?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15706		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ian Butler [ Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Middle Game pointers?
I'm trying to work on my middle game. I've been reading Tesuji and doing all sorts of things to help my middle game.
I played this game against a stronger opponent and I feel I completely lose my grip on the game again during the middle game. Invasions, reductions... I always end up on the wrong side, whether I get invaded or invade myself.

So especially technical pointers on how to improve my middle game are highly appreciated!
Author:  mitsun [ Mon May 07, 2018 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
At your level, you will improve more rapidly by improving tactics than by improving strategy. But since you asked about middle game ...

:b13: through :b19: aim at creating a large moyo along the right side. This is a fine middle game plan. Your subsequent play needs to consistently support this plan. You should be happy to see the W invasion at R17, since this allows you to further advance the plan by blocking on the right side, which you did (good).

:w32: invasion at Q12 is your first test. This move is probably a W overplay. At least it is very risky. You need to either capture this stone or make substantial profit from an attack. :b33: is an excellent move to start the attack.

By the way, do you know the status of the W upper right corner group? (B can start a ko to kill.) Keep this in mind during the fight. If W manages to escape, you are likely to have lots of ko threats, and losing the ko becomes small if B no longer has territory below to defend.

:b37: is weak, letting W off the hook. You must block and N13 and continue to confine W. The right strategy is to drive W toward your strong position above, using it to attack. The wrong strategy is to use that group to make territory, which is what :b39: looks like. (If you intended :b39: as an indirect attack on W, preparing to play N13 soon, then I withdraw this criticism.)

:b49: chickened out for no good reason. Cut at M15, continuing the attack on the large W group. W has no time to save the M16 stone, so you get some immediate profit. After :w52:, W appears to have weathered the attack with little damage, and the B position above has been pressed low and small.

OK, I can't resist pointing out some tactics. For :b69:, pretend this is a tesuji problem: B to play and capture. (The first move is obvious; it requires a bit of reading to verify that W cannot escape.)
Author:  Ian Butler [ Mon May 07, 2018 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
mitsun wrote:
At your level, you will improve more rapidly by improving tactics than by improving strategy. But since you asked about middle game ...

:b13: through :b19: aim at creating a large moyo along the right side. This is a fine middle game plan. Your subsequent play needs to consistently support this plan. You should be happy to see the W invasion at R17, since this allows you to further advance the plan by blocking on the right side, which you did (good).

:w32: invasion at Q12 is your first test. This move is probably a W overplay. At least it is very risky. You need to either capture this stone or make substantial profit from an attack. :b33: is an excellent move to start the attack.

By the way, do you know the status of the W upper right corner group? (B can start a ko to kill.) Keep this in mind during the fight. If W manages to escape, you are likely to have lots of ko threats, and losing the ko becomes small if B no longer has territory below to defend.

:b37: is weak, letting W off the hook. You must block and N13 and continue to confine W. The right strategy is to drive W toward your strong position above, using it to attack. The wrong strategy is to use that group to make territory, which is what :b39: looks like. (If you intended :b39: as an indirect attack on W, preparing to play N13 soon, then I withdraw this criticism.)

:b49: chickened out for no good reason. Cut at M15, continuing the attack on the large W group. W has no time to save the M16 stone, so you get some immediate profit. After :w52:, W appears to have weathered the attack with little damage, and the B position above has been pressed low and small.

OK, I can't resist pointing out some tactics. For :b69:, pretend this is a tesuji problem: B to play and capture. (The first move is obvious; it requires a bit of reading to verify that W cannot escape.)


Thanks, I'll read this carefully but first let me react: I am also looking for tactics, of course. So this can be tesuji for attack, defense, cutting, connecting... Actually I'm looking for "technical" help in the first place. Mostly I have a good idea, but how I do it is usually not the best way to do it.
But just focused on the middle game (which was perhaps a silly question, because there was no endgame and in the opening there is only strategy :)

EDIT:

Useful advice, thank you.
Yes I chickened out a few times, which cost me the game. That's exactly the reason I want to improve my middle game / fighting. :b39: was a move unworthy of any go-player :oops: :)
I'll look into the top right corner position, because I think it'll come up again!
:b49: once again there is no excuse for this lame move. My fighting spirit had deserted me by then and that's fatal in a go game against a strong player.
The Tesuji problem: It all starts with D12. As far as I can read, I catch these two stones.
So once again I chickened out without good reason :sad:

Thanks for the good pointers! I need to increase my technique for dealing with invasions and attacking and then I think my game will benefit a lot from that :)
Author:  Pio2001 [ Mon May 07, 2018 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
Hi, Ian,
From my KGS 5 kyu level (with Leela's assistance) :

You did a very good job attacking White's invasion at move 32.

It seems to me that you let complex situations develop, while reading complex situations is not your best strength.

For example, after White 54 in B4, I think you should block at B5, in order to keep the left side safe. This way, the situation is much easier to read.

After White C6, I think that following with Black D6 is easier : white in on the 3rd line and Black on the 4th one. So it is balanced.

According to Leela, you were doing well until move 117, where you ataried from the wrong side. The right move was 117 Q15, with a winning probability of 50 %.
Author:  Tryss [ Mon May 07, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
A quick remark : at move :b69:, you can cut with D12. Can you read it?
Author:  daal [ Tue May 08, 2018 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
More tactics: at :b1: :b2: :b1: you have a better move than s12 that keeps your enclosed stones and the attack on the white group alive (at least as far as I can tell...)
Author:  Knotwilg [ Tue May 08, 2018 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
daal wrote:
More tactics: at :b1: :b2: :b1: you have a better move than s12 that keeps your enclosed stones and the attack on the white group alive (at least as far as I can tell...)


If you mean connect at P13 then White can play S13 and still win the capturing race
Author:  ez4u [ Tue May 08, 2018 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
If you want to get better at the middle game, you have to stop playing moves like 17 ( :b2: below) in the opening. You have to be able to imagine White's response at :w3: and ask yourself, "What next?" After :b4: (19 in the game), White should have immediately captured at :w5:. White makes a huge profit in what was originally Black's corner. In addition, it is now inevitable that :b4: will turn out to be over-concentrated since "a" and "b" are miai. There are various alternatives for Black in this corner but learning joseki is not the theme of this analysis. The point here is that 17 in the game damages Black's position. Black does know enough to realize that connecting against the atari would be slack (17 becomes a wasted move) but probably there was nothing better.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X X 5 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Later on in the play against the invaders in the upper right, Black can consider driving White in the direction of the lower right. Imagine that Black plays the hane at :b1: below and prevents White from pushing through at the top. Black 7 and 9 channel White along the side and Black is going to be able to justify some additional moves that make use of the lower right stones in attacking White.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 5 . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 7 . 8 X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


One more point. On the left side, look at what happens when you answer :w1: with :b2: below. The stone at 2 means that if you capture at 7 (as you did in the game), you have an inefficient shape. You have used five stone to capture 1 when you only need 4. If you are going to capture at 7, you want to do so instead of playing 2. In this case, the ko (if White plays 2) may be hard to fight. Black has a lot at risk along the left side. So playing 2 makes some sense. Then however, we cannot capture at 7. We have to play 4 instead. Imagine that White can successfully connect at 5 (which wouldn't happen in the game). Even then, Black would be better off to cut. It takes some reading but not a lot. The White stones cannot escape. Black becomes strong so White becomes weak. This is the essence of fighting in the middle game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X O O X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . O O . . . X . |
$$ | . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 4 . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . 2 X O 6 . . . . . . . . X X . X O . |
$$ | . X O 7 . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . O . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, ONE MORE "one more point". If White answers :b1: below (instead of 117), :b3: kills.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X X X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X O O X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . X O . X O O O 1 . X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X X O . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 4 O . O . 2 . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . 5 . 3 . X O O O . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . X . X X . X O . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . X . . . . X O X X . . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X X . X O O O X X O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . O O . . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  Ian Butler [ Tue May 08, 2018 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
Thanks for the helpful comments.
ez4u, those are some very interesting diagrams. Yes I had realized the error of 17 all too soon :oops:
Diagrams 2 and 3, I should've been able to see. It was not my best game. On another day I might've played them.
The last diagram is tougher. A difficult L&D situation for me. :)
Author:  daal [ Tue May 08, 2018 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
Knotwilg wrote:
daal wrote:
More tactics: at :b1: :b2: :b1: you have a better move than s12 that keeps your enclosed stones and the attack on the white group alive (at least as far as I can tell...)


If you mean connect at P13 then White can play S13 and still win the capturing race


No, my thought was to play S13. It threatens to cut, and if w connects at s13, b connects at p13, and I don't see a way for w to win the capturing race.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon May 14, 2018 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
ez4u wrote:
If you want to get better at the middle game, you have to stop playing moves like 17 ( :b2: below) in the opening. You have to be able to imagine White's response at :w3: and ask yourself, "What next?" ...


You don't even need to do that. All you need do is note that you have sente, and that you got to make the first hane. There is blood in the water.

So just based on that, you keep the pressure on him. You make a double hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Footnote: Okay, technically you didn't hane. But you two arrived a the same shape as if you had haned at the head of two stones.

Consider it like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Try to develop a feel for the flow of the game. When you see moves 1 through 6, move 7 will seem natural.
Listen to your stones. Your stone at R4 is screaming for backup.

You may have to swap moves around a bit - especially with the haphazard disregard for temperature that one sees in kyu games.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon May 14, 2018 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Ian,
At :w16:, does anyone have access to Leela's evals, and its next move ?
Evals for (c), (a), (b), or tenuki ? Thanks.

:black: (a) gets you "hane head of 2; hane foot of 2" -- perhaps not an unreasonable candidate to consider.
Locally, the most popular pro move is (c), just connect solidly
( 60% in one database ).
But we now know even top human pros' assessments are very flawed
( re: Golaxy results, etc. )

( :b17: is very strange indeed -- some misunderstanding of something. You need to fix it. :) )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X c . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . a O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  WindCaliber [ Mon May 14, 2018 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
Hi Ed,

This is a fairly recent version of Leela Zero, right before ELF. This is not at super high playouts, but LZ seems to think that the pro move is the best by a safe margin. It also seems to think that (a) is a terrible move, dropping the winrate down to ~25%.

More playouts could change these percentages of course.

Image
Author:  EdLee [ Mon May 14, 2018 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi WindCaliber, thanks! :)
Author:  gowan [ Thu May 17, 2018 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Middle Game pointers?
Two suggestions to think about:

1) Make multipurpose moves. That is to say make moves with two or more threats or with more than one follow-up. Splitting moves and leaning attacks fit this description.

2) Consider playing useful forcing moves before taking gote. In particular, when in a situation of having to make life, play forcing moves before the final, gote, life-making moves.
Author:  EdLee [ Thu May 17, 2018 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Consider playing useful forcing moves before taking gote.
Emphasis. useful: good for you, globally.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/