This game is won by white, but actually move 120 feels like a desperate try to fight back and gain any territory, what white couldn't accomplish until now. What big mistakes did you see from these players? (the 2 invasions of black in the beginning need not to be discussed I think. Everybody 5k or better should know that it's crap.)

I think you got into trouble by playing too softly against several B invasions, possibly because you overestimate your potential for center territory. Detailed comments:

The early invasion by B at move 7 is premature. By move 20, W punished this invasion and achieved a commanding lead. If W handled the other B invasions this well, he would win easily.

The B kick at move 29 helps W more than B, but the invasion at move 31 looks reasonable. B has to do something about the W influence here, and the chosen move leaves room to make a base in either direction, so it should not get into too much trouble. W should probably attack at J17, since this makes a base for his stones on the weaker side and forces B to extend toward W thickness.

The shoulder hit at K16 is too mild, letting B settle his stone with quite a bit of territory. The shoulder hit normally has two applications -- reducing an opponents moyo, or conceding side territory to expand a large center. Neither of these situations apply here. The jump to M16 may be playable, but it is thin, so after B settles the side group, the W center is not as powerful as it may appear. The hane at O17 compounds the problem, letting B break through the W surrounding group in sente. By move 52 or 58, I think B has reversed the early W lead and the game is up for grabs.

The B invasion at C6 at move 59 is premature, much like the first early invasion. It is strategically wrong, because the area on the bottom is larger than the area between the two W stones on the left. Also, since the W group above is strong, fighting in this area should be unfavorable for B. Unfortunately, W did not do well in this fight.

The hane at D8 at move 62 is severe, but a simple stand at D9 would be fine too, giving B no weakness to play against. In struggling to live or to escape, B should have to concede a large corner and lower left territory to W, giving W a good result with no need to try for a kill.

At move 72, W must connect to remain strong. B would still have no eyes. The hane at E4 would be nice for B, but this cannot be helped. W could still take a lot of territory along the lower left side, although he would have to push from behind for a few moves. In the game sequence, after move 74, B has succeeded in complicating the situation and it looks like his invasion group might get out of trouble without giving W much if any compensation.

The shoulder hit at J4 at move 78 looks wrong to me. I see that W is trying to engineer a double attack, but this move lets B take territory, and W attacking prospects don't look that great. Better for W I think would be to aim for the more severe attack/invasion at K3. Perhaps W should take the ko first; then if B connects for safety, W is certainly strong enough to play K3.

Up to move 94, B got a pretty good result, splitting the W groups and forcing W to connect on a dame point. The push at K7 at move 95 feels good but is dangerous, as the W answer at K3 is really too good to allow. If B just settled his group by sliding to L2, he would have no problems, and I think he would probably win on territory. The center B group would still be weak, but so would cut off W group, so that fight would not be too dangerous for B.

In the final fight, the B cut at L6 at move 115 is unreasonable. W should extend to L8 in sente, then atari the other direction and capture this stone. The B center group would still be in trouble, but the W group would be strong.

Very insightful comments, thanks a lot.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc from the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course, B should not attach at a first. But is whites stretch here correct? There are 10 lines to the strength, so it is pretty clear that an invasion is possible.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c Here we said, white has the lead.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Didn't black win something back here? To me it looks quite even now.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 . . 5 . 4 . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . b . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Should white considered different moves for 1 or 3? Maybe one of the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Var a: Here we don't leave a simple invasion around a.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . 1 . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Var b: Here also an invasion is so easy.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |[/go]

I think your suggestions risk the dangerous folly of fixing what isn't broken, but not being very good at repair work and thereby making things worse.



Yes! You almost have to play the stretch (I'd say have to, except for knowing that in Go there is always someone who knows better ). It is the difference between that stone being weak or strong, between that move being powerful or wasted.

What you have not seen is the punishment I added at 5, which is normally the easiest way to show black how wrong he is. I think it is good here - sometimes you can double approach, but rarely do you need to try so hard.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Not from the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . X . . 6 . a . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X . O . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . 7 3 . . 5 . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Obviously there are many choices, but I've shown the one I just happened to be reading about. Black simply has given white too many good moves - if black really wants to make his top stone strong, white just makes the left side strong whilst black's top left corner becomes very small.

This is often the way to punish a greedy invading opponent. They rely on you trying to kill every stone, which you can't if they are good at running (and you probably shouldn't be able to anyway). But instead, with something like this black simply has too much to think about, he can't invade every position of yours at once - and if he tries, white probably has enough territory to win.

I'm not saying this is definitely best, white's right side group has some bad aji, but you get the idea I'm sure. I'm not sure if there's a case for replacing 6 with something like a, or just playing differently earlier to keep the pressure up on this stone.

Anyway, the main message is: just extend! Your stones have black opponents on both sides to lean on, if you forget about the corner then black's trick has been successful.



Well, as above, I think white has better moves. But in any case, I think you are committing the common mistake; black really has not gained much! Those stones look strong, you can't think of a way to attack them, but later in the game you will try to invade, fail, black cuts some stones off, you are sad and angry but...wait, you accidentally got really strong in the centre and those stones are dead! Black must worry all the time about whether he really ought to play another move there, and white can cleverly aim to attack them on a large scale. Don't think 'black has a strong group where my moyo was, I lost out', but instead, 'black chose to trade some of my points for a weak group, I'll make him pay for that later'.

I do wonder if you can justify a line of play like this, trying to force black in the direction you want him to go before leaning on the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Didn't black win something back here? To me it looks quite even now.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 . 6 . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black mildly answers, I think white gains as now black's weak group is right next to white's stronger one - or what will be the stronger one after 7. But if black doesn't answer, I'm not sure if white has a really great punishment (though maybe just extending from your 2 stones is okay - overconcentrated but you get an attack going).



This one is a risky and (I think) poor strategy, saying 'my strength is for territory, I must find a move that makes territory from it!'. We all know that thickness is for attacking, not making territory . This way, black gets a massive upper left corner and can mount a reduction that is probably more than sufficient, or actually can probably still live in there due to white's bad aji.

I think that trying to find a move to make territory of all that is completely the wrong thing to do, and that instead you must better appreciate the strengths of the position you did get in to. This makes it easier for black to invade, but white ends up stronger as he races ahead of black taking big points whilst black adds more weak stones here and there.



3 is terrible - when black plays 4, what was the 1 stone for in the first place? And white's moyo/territory thing is smaller than in any other variation, whilst black's upper left corner is very big. Don't fall into the trap of choosing where your territory is, let black fall into the trap of being jealous of where it naturally appears.