Just got done playing my first ever 19x19 match against another human . Was brave and joined a 24k player's game - was pleased with the result! Would appreciate any feedback or tips on how I can improve if you'd be so kind! I tried to play light moves that avoided overconcentration, whereas my opponent's stones seemed to be very overconcentrated. He also let me have some play towards the edges/corners at the start for free which was nice. In relation to that, as a general principle, should I play the 3-3 point in the corners where I have a 4-4 point to secure precise territory in the late game? Since my opponent could still potentially invade there, I think? What stones do I need in place (alongside the 4-4 one) to make sure that my opponent can't successfully invade in the corner by playing at the 3-3 point? Having the 4-4, 3-4 and 4-3 stones is surely enough, but how about say, having the 4-4 and 3-4? Or 4-4 and 3-5?

Thanks very much, feedback is much appreciated! Also, could anyone give me a rough idea of what kyu level they think I played at? I thought I was around 25-28k before this game, but maybe not, I don't know.

There is no simple rule about it. In general, protecting your 4-4 point can be a great move in the late game. The 3-3 point is a very slow way of doing so, and doesn't usually come up in strong games unless white has pushed in a bit.



In isolation, white cannot live in the corner if black has the 4-4 and 3-4 stones, but the corner isn't that big on its own as white can still approach and undercut it on one side.

The 4-4 and 3-5 is more common if you want to solely protect the corner, as (in isolation) the 3-3 invasion does not work any more. This is still quite a slow move, though sometimes seen and sometimes very good.

The 4-4 and 6-4 or 4-4 and 6-3 are probably the most common ways to continue locally. These both make kindso f corner shimari. White can still live in the corner in both cases, but (in isolation, i.e. no white stones nearby), the 4-4,6-3 shape forces white to take ko (I'll leave this as an exercise, there are chapters of books devoted to these shapes which I won't reproduce here. Sensei's Library probably has good stuff on them). In both cases, even if white lives, black is saying that he doesn't care if white invades and lives, because the thickness he will make will be overwhelming. This is the most efficient way to play, in general, rather than the slower way of just playing 4-4,5-3, because it is not so slow and does not have just one plan that can fail.
(EDIT: I see you took the 6-3 option in most corners in the game. These were all good moves, and good ways of helping the corner efficiently).


The 4-4,7-3 is similar to 4-4,6-4. White can live in the corner, but black becomes very thick (and white probably gets gote if black wants him to), so black can play a big move to make use of his wall.

Finally, the textbook way to play with 4-4 is not to play like this but instead to consider that the 4-4 supports long extensions. It works well with adjacent 10-4 points, for instance. Whilst you can play nearby like you suggest (and this is perfectly good and strong), you should never neglect the option of extending a long way and playing on a large scale. Conversely, if you have played 4-3 in the corner, it is good to finish this off with 3-5, because the corner is 'unfinished' in a way that the 4-4 is not.




It is almost impossible to judge kyu level (arguably it isn't even well defined) below 20kish. I can say that you very much outplayed him, though, perhaps they are a complete beginner.

I will say one thing on the game, continuing the topic of how to protect the 4-4 corner. At move 23, you play M17. Now you have two extensions from the Q16 corner, which is great. However, after playing R14, white's 3-3 invasion stopped working (or, white would get ko if black played right). After M17, which is quite far away, white would get...still ko! So the M17 stone helps your moyo plan, but it is not very efficient at helping the corner. For this reason, we often consider shapes like this to be bad - if white invades teh corner and lives now, hte M17 stone did not help and is now too close to black's wall.

Instead, this is a good time to play the P17 shape. These 3 stones very nicely protect the corner fully, and black has good territory as well as influence prospects. Alternatively, K16 would be a great move, which doesn't pretend to protect the corners but instead would make a massive moyo if white invades either one.

I added some comments. You should try automatching; KGS will match you with stronger and stronger opponents until you reach your level.

Also, consider playing a little slower. 30 s byo-yomi means that there's no compelling reason for you to ever play faster than 29 s per move. It didn't hurt you in this game, but you don't want to get into the habit of not reading ahead and then run into a wall when you start playing players who are equally strong.

Great job I see you were the stronger player in this scenario, The big thing that I noticed you did that I should commend you for was tenuking and playing on a corner. In Go you have what Yilun Yang calls classed moves for the opening they are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. 1st class moves are your most important moves and essential for any good game of Go and that is to take play a corner stone such as 3-4. 4-4, and others. I do believe you have an understanding of this in some sense which is really good for your rank.

I do not believe you are 30th kyu, play a few more games and you will get a accurate ranking. Also I would like to commend you for understanding connection and disconnection and what is alive and dead, this is a concept that took my student himself some time to understand. I encourage you to keep playing, and play the best games you can. Have a good day .

_________________
“I’m here to play go and chew bubble gum, and I’m all out of gum”- misquoted duke nukem

You are much stronger than most beginners. I think you are probably in the teen kyus. You did well with keeping your stones connected, reading how your opponent was threatening them, and keeping your opponents disconnected. That's a great way to start.

A lot of your moves were overconcentrated and non-enterprising. That will hurt you against stronger players.

Thanks very much everyone for the feedback. I guess the main flaw with my overconcentrated type moves was that I was trying to secure territory directly rather than just letting my stones flow and get influence. If my stones have good influence and are efficient, then even if white were to invade in my territory, I could force him to live small, and I'd build up even more influence and thickness to help me win more than enough points for compensation in other parts of the board.

I've looked at and studied the 4-4 6-3 combo article on Sensei's Library now to look at how I can get more than enough compensation for a white invasion at 3-3. That's really effective - and more importantly I now understand precisely why the 4-4 6-3 combo is so good rather than just thinking "Oh, I'm protecting my corner."

Is the 4-4 point a good place to put a stone as a beginner (and then follow it up with 6-3)? Or should I take preference to the 3-4 5-3 combination? Which is generally thought to be better?

Thanks again .

Neither is better. The 4-4 place is a fine place to put a stone as a beginner. The 3-4 is also fine. The 4-4 can be followed up with 6-3, but you don't have to do so, and sometimes it may be bad. Following the 4-3 point up with 3-5 is generally considered more urgent, but is also entirely not necessary in most cases if you want to do something else. Other perfectly good points to start off with include 3-5, 6-4, 8-8, 5-5 and 10-10 - feeling like there is a way you 'should' play is only a good way of ending up not knowing about the many ways you could play, in my opinion.

I have heard some people say that beginners should start with the 44, just because the joseki tend to be a little easier. However, you'll probably have to learn both eventually, so it's up to you