Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Warning: Boring beginner game
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4901
Page 1 of 1

Author:  shyin [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Warning: Boring beginner game

My biggest problem with this game was move 158. I think I should have played at J14, which would probably give me a way to save the K19 group later on, but I decided to ask here because you guys will probably know better than me.
Move 199 is also annoying me. I should have played there in my previous move instead of that F1 stones. That situation cost me a lot more than it should have.

Feel free to point out any other mistakes as well, because I'm sure there are many (disregard the last move, it was a mix of stupidity, not thinking, and paranoia).



Attachments:
ol-shyin.sgf [6.31 KiB]
Downloaded 635 times

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning: Boring beginner game

8: You fell into a classic opening trap, which, fortunately, your opponent did not know how to exploit. You should play the solid E16 here.

9: He should play B17. It threatens to connect underneath with B16. So you would have to play B16 yourself. Then he counter-cuts at E16. It turns out that white is rather safe with a wall at his back, whereas black has a white stone in exactly the wrong position.

A digression on shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . X . . . . .
$$ . . . X . a b . .
$$ . . . X . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .[/go]

When you have three stones in a row, as black has above, the shape move is 'a', sometimes 'b' if there is an uncrowded board. For the opponent to take 'a' is really bad for you.


After white cuts, some black stones will die.
I recommend setting up a board with this position to convince yourself of that fact.

14: On the left end of this fight, B17 and C15 are miai for you, so you can't lose there. But G17 is big for him to get out at the right end, so you take it first.

18: This is aji keshi. That is, you are losing aji. Before you played this move, you had a ko threat ad C18 or D18. Now you don't have it any more.

20: This is a 1-point move. In gote. There are big moves about. G17 is my favorite locally, and maybe the best on the board.

21: Fortunately for you, he doesn't realize that he could have ignored your last play.

22: Good idea, but not quite the best. G17 is almost as aggressive, and it leaves no weaknesses in your position. ( If he wants to crawl along the second line while you march along the third, you should be delighted to comply. Your resulting influence is worth more than his territory )

23: Hehehe. You bluffed him again. But don't make a habit of this. As you get stronger, you can't count on your opponents being so gullible.

24: This is premature. As a general rule, when a lone 4-4 corner is invaded, and the resulting joseki is played, the invader's territory is worth less than the defender's outside influence. Sorry, but I can't really prove this to you. I ask you to take it on faith until you become stronger and it will then be self-evident.
Usually, to contest the corner, you would do best to approach with R6 or O3.

36: Again, the same theme: you are leaving a cutting point. The solid play at J16 is better.

48: Why leave a weakness for him to push through? Play solid with E4 or D5.

It is bedtime for me here. Maybe I'll have time to finish tomorrow.

Author:  jts [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning: Boring beginner game

I'll pick up where Joaz left off, more or less (albeit at a much lower level :cry: )

42: Why? It doesn't threaten the life of white's group, it doesn't protect yours. If W pokes out along the first line and begs you to solidify your influence, greedily say "yes please!" Indeed, on such an empty board you should be happy to let W crawl all the way across the board on the first line if he wants to. Second line influence is (cue Tony) grrrreat! -- Much better to guard your cutting point by putting that one white stone in a ladder.

(Third line influence is pretty darn good, too. Hane down to the second line ( :b22:, and then again on :b36:) when your opponent has a strong shape and you don't is kinda greedy: instead of securely gobbling up the third line, you create weaknesses your opponent can profit from. I suspect that both :b42:, and :b44: were caused by having too little respect for the value of the second line, and :b22: / :b36: by having too little respect for the third line.)

50: This is no good. First, since he didn't push through and cut on this last move, now is your chance to connect solidly, as Joaz suggested for :b48:. But secondly, you're voluntarily giving yourself the "hane at the head of two stones" shape. The ends of a line of stones are the best places for it to continue developing. When you hane at the head of two stones, you've cut off nearly half of their potential for development. Backing yourself into this position on purpose is madness - well, you should at least have a very special goal in mind when you do it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ The marked stones are the "heads" that have been "hane'd"
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . O .
$$ . . . O . . O . O B .
$$ . . O B . O B . O X .
$$ . . O X . . X . O X .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O O . . . . .
$$ . . . O B B O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


56: Hmm, interesting. This sort of move - leaving a gap between your stones, but more or less entirely surrounding the opponent - could be very strong if you were stronger in this area. (The idea is you are both very weak locally, but your stones can run to their strong friends and then he dies miserably.) However, here I think you are too weak: and besides, if you connect solidly with D10, W has no way to get more room for his stones without forcing you to attack E7.

60: Good. However, I'm not sure you had to atari the cutting stone, making it stronger, first.
64: B9 is huge. Can you read out any way for W to escape after you play B9?
72: This is a good idea (making an eye false) but a little premature. If W runs out to F11 and then makes eyes in the center, you look a little silly, don't you, having that useless stone in there? W can't make eyes at B12 *and* A11; you can prevent at least one, right? So your goal needs to be to prevent him from making another eye, and then he's dead without you having to actually play C12.

82: Again with disrespecting the second line! When you hane down to the first line, you're either committing yourself to take gote to defend the cut, or you're going to allow him to capture that stone and escape.

84: If you had played B8 instead of A8, you could now play G13, and W would just be dead. G13 is still a far more effective way to live than A14, though.

91: Very important to extend to O17. Otherwise W can atari your stone and suddenly he has broken into the side. You should be willing to take as much third-line influence as W is willing to give you, unless there's something more urgent.


All right, now it's my bed time. :) Maybe I'll add more tomorrow.

Author:  EdLee [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject: 

Bruno, welcome. If you are new to Go and have not finished 100 games yet, do it as soon as you can.
The game is not boring. There is plenty (perhaps too much) to learn from it at this level. :) A few notes:

Author:  shyin [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning: Boring beginner game

Thank you all for your replies! I can see a lot more mistakes that I shouldn't have made now. Guess I need to keep playing as much as I can. (Also, EdLee, I know go isn't boring, but I have a slight suspicion my games will probably be boring to someone stronger, i.e. pretty much everyone in this forum :lol: )

Author:  EdLee [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

shyin wrote:
I know go isn't boring, but I have a slight suspicion my games will probably be boring to...)
And I was referring to your game, not Go. :)

Author:  jts [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning: Boring beginner game

shyin wrote:
Thank you all for your replies! I can see a lot more mistakes that I shouldn't have made now. Guess I need to keep playing as much as I can. (Also, EdLee, I know go isn't boring, but I have a slight suspicion my games will probably be boring to someone stronger, i.e. pretty much everyone in this forum :lol: )


You'd actually be surprised. Professional games are really exciting because of the unexpected, ambitious, daring, brilliant, stylish moves that the players make. But a beginner's games can actually be very intense for other players to go over, because new players create many weaknesses in their positions, leave strategically valuable points open, and leave life and death positions unsettled. It's a little bit like watching a horror movie ...... "Oh my god, don't go in the kitchen don't go in the kitchen, don't.... :o :o :o :o :o :o "

Author:  shyin [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re:

EdLee wrote:
shyin wrote:
I know go isn't boring, but I have a slight suspicion my games will probably be boring to...)
And I was referring to your game, not Go. :)


Oh, damn my reading comprehension!

jts wrote:
You'd actually be surprised. Professional games are really exciting because of the unexpected, ambitious, daring, brilliant, stylish moves that the players make. But a beginner's games can actually be very intense for other players to go over, because new players create many weaknesses in their positions, leave strategically valuable points open, and leave life and death positions unsettled. It's a little bit like watching a horror movie ...... "Oh my god, don't go in the kitchen don't go in the kitchen, don't.... :o :o :o :o :o :o "

:lol: I can imagine. Yesterday during a game both me and my opponent missed the fact that I had a bent three shape almost completely surrounded by his stones and instead of killing it by playing the middle point, he tenuki'd. And even worse, I responded to his tenuki instead of making those stones live! We didn't notice until much later in the game.

Author:  cyclops [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:

shyin wrote:
. ..... Yesterday during a game both me and my opponent missed the fact that I had a bent three shape almost completely surrounded ......

The bent three shape should be in the rules !!

Author:  illluck [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warning: Boring beginner game

Just a quick addition to Joaz's comment for move 9: the hane is actually often better than the descent (depending on situation, of course) - your opponent's error is move 11 - should just be to connect.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/