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| 3-3 tesuji? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5397 |
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| Author: | brodie [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | 3-3 tesuji? |
I recently finished this game, and it was much closer than I expected, and closer than it should have been. I have reviewed it and mostly know what mistakes I made and what mistakes he made, but the question I have is whether there is any way the late game 3-3 invasion (move 172) could have worked. When he made the move I got nervous, but in the end it worked out for me. Surely there is either a joseki to make it live, or it is simply not played because it doesn't work, right? |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
I added two quick variations. EDIT: move 68 would have been much better timing for the 3-3 invasion. |
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| Author: | brodie [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
yeah, when i reviewd the game, moves 68, 86, 104, and 131 seemed like the worst ones, tho im sure theres a lot of stinkers in there. its interesting to hear you say that was the moment for the invasion, as i am never sure when the appropriate time for the 3-3 is, not too early but not missing the opportunity. and thanks for the ko variation, i'll have to try that out some time. it seems like there'e no way for black to live outright, barring a white mistake, but i wanted to be sure (before it costs me a game!). |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
Just so you know, the upper right is unsettled. |
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| Author: | judicata [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
After move 112, the white R17 group should live. But black could have killed it at 156 onward (even instead of passing). |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
You were black in this game, right? |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
I'm not completely sure, but I think the ko variation doesn't work after white plays B18. |
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| Author: | mitsun [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
At the end of the game, there is no way for a 3-3 invasion to live, not even with ko. On the other hand, the game is far from over in other regions. The upper right lives or dies depending on who plays Q19. The lower left is not settled until someone plays G3. |
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| Author: | yoyoma [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
If you have strong enough walls in the area you can kill the 3-3 even if you don't have a 4-4 stone at all: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BiggestCorner So the answer to this extremely common question is: It depends. In this game, the invasion should not live. |
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| Author: | Mike Novack [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
Wrong question? Brodie, do you see what Speedchase posted? White should have lost this game anyway but would have been closer to have let your invasion live very small in gote in order to save the upper right group. |
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| Author: | Koroviev [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
OP is white. |
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| Author: | brodie [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
sorry, away from the laptop for a bit. as stated, yes, i was white. after looking at this, i am amazed that we both let q19 slip. as well as g3. i have the beginner mind of only envisioning my potential invasions of his territory and not seeing his potential invasions of mine. luckily he had the more beginner mind of not envisioning either. i think that as the weaker player he followed my ill-advised pass as evidence it was over. |
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| Author: | brodie [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 tesuji? |
also thanks to everyone for the responses. i lurk often but post rarely, and its nice to know that when i do, my question will be answered thoughtfully by a number of people much stronger than I. |
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