blindgod, Welcome to Go.
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| Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5822 |
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| Author: | blindgod [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
This is a game I played on kgs today. It was my first time playing as white in a handicap game and I feel like I won based more due to a number of small mistakes (and one big one) that black made rather than anything I did right. Anyway, I was hoping for feedback. A few thoughts of my own (please correct me if I'm wrong) 1. Move 137 is embarrassing. I was focusing on the bottom and completely missed that my four stones were in atari. The sequence following it was not good for me either. 2. 245 should have been played at 246 3. 289 should have been played at 290 4. I was really thrown off when black didn't play joseki, and I don't think my response was as good as it could have been. Anyway, thank you. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:10 pm ] |
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blindgod, Welcome to Go. |
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| Author: | Twitchy Go [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
I noticed while glancing quickly through the game. (I have a big deadline tomorrow, or I'd be more in depth)  Anyway, the game quickly became one big fight sprawling across the board. This might work in low handicap games, but at higher handicaps not so much. W wants to play very lightly. I apologise that this is not directly about your game. But playing against a handicap requires a more methodical approach. And if you've had no experience playing W in such cases it helps to be exposed to the following idea. That is what I think at least. Surely not the best of playing(only a 12kyu myself) and B is playing somewhat badly(2 is a mistake I see alot in high handi games i play against people, it leaves the 3-3 open.) but does illustrate what I'm saying i hope. W is aiming to make B defend the marked stone. This lets W create nice influence that will be used to make a fair share of territory later. A possible continuation, maybe  How I see it is this. W is given a komi to offset the advantage B has going first. In a handicap game W has no komi(beyond tiebreak) and B has even more stones of an advantage. Therefore you want to avoid playing in a way that 1. Seals you onto a side. 2. starts a fight before you have anything to help you in said fight. Ideally W begins the game floating like a butterfly, then proceeds to drop on B groups like a whale. B is left somewhat dazed and confused as to what the heck just happened  I hope what little I have to say is helpful when playing W in future handi games. And as EdLee said, welcome to the game : ) |
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| Author: | blindgod [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
Oops. I originally said that 289 should have been played at 290. What I meant was 279 should have been played at 280. Sorry for any confusion. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:49 am ] |
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blindgod wrote: 279 should have been played at 280. 279 should've been to fix B11.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:07 am ] |
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Twitchy Go, Your first diagram: |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:39 am ] |
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Twitchy Go, your second diagram: |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 am ] |
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Twitchy Go, your second diagram (2): |
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| Author: | Twitchy Go [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
 Urgent points first and all that. EdLee, would you agree with my posts point. I firmly believe that W needs to play somewhat lighter in handi games and try to avoid fighting initially to allow some influence to build. I think its a good point to be made but, since my example is not an example could I get your opinion on the matter? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:13 am ] |
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Twitchy Go wrote: could I get your opinion on the matter? Yes, you could. Here's my opinion: |
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
Dang, I meant to submit this post last night but apparently I forgot. Anyway, and even though B11 has now been mentioned before … here is what I wrote: ________________ I’m just a lowly DDK, and I’ll leave it to better players to comment on the game itself, but … … the game’s not over, methinks, except if B would give up. With passing, W left B two cutting/invasion opportunities:
If Black cuts the latter, I think B can at least turn it into a Seki, quite a loss for W. If B cuts B11 then (I think) it’s a small gain for B and a small loss for W. (I’m slightly dyscalculic, have to take off my shoes if I need to count to 20, so please check all my allegations about amounts or area.) Also, if Black should be able to put stones on G12 and H11 then B would earn one point of territory, so W should pay attention there, too. Small, but nevertheless territory  First time I dare to comment something here, I hope I didn’t write too much BS or break some rules. Greetings, Tom |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:29 pm ] |
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Tom, Bonobo wrote: If Black cuts [K2], I think B can at least turn it into a Seki Study K2 more closely.
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| Author: | Twitchy Go [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
Posting my answers to EdLee's fun challanges in my new study corner I did not want to completly hijack this thread, but didn't want to leave everyone hanging... well if anyone cared much. |
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| Author: | blindgod [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but if black plays K2, then I play L1, I don't think there's anything black can do in that space other than die. And thank you for pointing out B11. I can't believe I missed that. I think I was overly concerned about time since I had recently lost a won game due to time. But then again, with 5-30s, it shouldn't have been a concern. Thanks for your time. I wasn't happy with how I played, but I see that as indicating a game where there's a lot I can learn from. |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
blindgod wrote: Maybe I'm wrong on this, but if black plays K2, then I play L1, I don't think there's anything black can do in that space other than die. Blindgod, look at to what your stones are connected. Even in heaven God would not find so many eyes, not even when blind. That means you can just cut K2 off at J1 and say thank you. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:05 am ] |
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cyclops wrote: Blindgod, look at to what your stones are connected. Even in heaven God would not find so many eyes, not even when blind. cyclops, are you sure you're talking about the same thing? That means you can just cut K2 off at J1 and say thank you. He means after W 287, B plays K2 as move 288 or 290 (instead of pass), which was brought up by Bonobo. (W cannot play J1 because there's already a B stone there (move 284)). |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: cyclops, are you sure you're talking about the same thing? He means after W 287, B plays K2 as move 288 or 290 (instead of pass), which was brought up by Bonobo. (W cannot play J1 because there's already a B stone there (move 284)). I must have been confused again Now I am even trying to solve this unrelated puzzle |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:56 am ] |
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cyclops wrote: Now I am even trying to solve this unrelated puzzle Feels related, doesn't it.
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Tom, Bonobo wrote: If Black cuts [K2], I think B can at least turn it into a Seki Study K2 more closely. Oh my So, no Seki, since—to my shame—I overlooked that W is connected to the right side.Thanks, Ed! |
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| Author: | Buri [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Beginner handicap game. All feedback welcome |
Twitchy Go, it's a pity you had to get a little personal in your comments. notice nobody else here is doing anything except saying 'you could do this or that etc.' Does it not occur to you that as a complete beginner with no teachers, handicapped by old age, actually struggling because KGS promotes too fast, I might not appreciate your comments? Actually I did feel a little discouraged. Anyways, what does 'playing badly' mean? Next time --you- play is every move you make maximally efficient? I think not. If it were you would be a Dan ranked player and then some... We are all just doing our best at any given moments. Cheers, Buri |
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tenuki
and 
above are wrong -- W would push through with 
-- B's shape is 
and split W into two groups --
group, and 
is already starting to die a slow natural death: