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Review please?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5889		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Loons [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Review please?

Edit:Oh, 140 needs to be L7.

Attachments:
Loons.sgf [3.31 KiB]
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Author:  jts [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
I am of course unqualified to critique, Loons, but do have questions.

20: Why wouldn't this be a textbook case of the 3-4 corner being bigger than the 4-4 corner? After you've made your low position in the top right in gote, it seems like you don't have a ton of great responses to his approach.
26: Is pincering possible? Because you can force at C8 first it seems hard for him to attack the pincer stone. (There also seems to be a 1-2-3 principle at work... if taking up a position on the left side is going to forced eventually at W32, why not establish yourself there first?)
32: Is there a reason not to play C8 and B12 first?
47: Why not D9? Losing the base seems hard. (Or to be more precise: what was the exact followup you saw that you judged worse than the game?)
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
jts,
jts wrote:
20: Why wouldn't this be a textbook case of the 3-4 corner being bigger than the 4-4 corner?
Think of :w20: at O17 and C15 (shimari) as miai.
Author:  nyuubi [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
A few comments. I am about the same strength as you so take the comments with a grain of salt.



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Author:  EdLee [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:21 am ]
Post subject: 
nyuubi,
Some feedback on your variations at :w20:, :w24:, :w26::
Author:  nyuubi [ Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
I see what you're saying ed, think on this I must.
Author:  cyclops [ Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
Quote:
Loons: (Urgent move to respond to in real life, couldn't finish :( )
As long as real life and go are miai you can't lose. :D
Author:  Uberdude [ Tue May 01, 2012 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
About 20 and the following joseki making a low position with the 3-4 in gote; I do not feel confident to say it is bad. I have seen that shape in pro games. You could of course play k16 instead of q18 slide for a different game. I think c15 attachment to make points is correct and f16 would be bad.

Another idea which seems interesting, if a little cheeky, is to treat the approach as a forcing exchange and then make the shimari, saying you've got both of the miai (because if you shimari directly black would o17 not r14 so your approach has let you choose the direction). The thinking here is black answered your approach low rather than high which means he has a less severe attack on your stone if you tenuki. Black also has 2 low stones on the right side so his potential there can easily be erased with a should hit at a (if you don't feel like invading). If black then follows the traditional "Hey! You aren't supposed to tenuki so I will kick and attack" you can leave your weak group hanging and make some profit on the top side backed up by the shimari with 26 before running out your group. Obviously black gets some gain in the corner this way, but both players have running groups on the top side so it looks an active way to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Something like this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 . . . . O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O O . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


P.S. I'm not convinced black's fancy j4 is a good exchange. There are sometimes similar situations when white is make a huge moyo that after black taking the corner you would answer that press with an aggressive cap rather than safe move, but that doesn't seem to apply here. Black lost some other options to exploit weaknesses in your shape, for example if black gets n3 he can aim at things like j3 attachment coupled with f2 aji.
Author:  Loons [ Tue May 08, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Review please?
Mostly @jts

At 26, I didn't pincer because... Well, I couldn't see a reason to. I'd like to take territory and continue building my position on top? In hindsight I think my joseki choice was ok.

At 32, those other moves are my sente. Why play them now? Is black going to spend a whole move eliminating one of them? (The answer to which would seem to be yes; black should play C9 not G14).

48: A lot of people I show this game (all but one so far?) think I should have tried to live locally on the left before/rather than doing anything else. In my mind, black has two weak groups to white's one, and that is the interesting thing of this game? I'm told G10 should have been H9 though. It is true that I failed repeatedly to punish black's weak groups in the game, and after 112 the game is too hard for me.


Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
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