Life In 19x19 :: 3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS)

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3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS) http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5984	Page 1 of 1

Author:	michalk [ Wed May 16, 2012 6:40 am ]
Post subject:	3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS)
Hello, this is my recent game from DGS. I was white and my plan was since around move 49 to kill the middle black group, or at least run it into black's territory. My position wasn't thick enough, so in the end I didn't manage to kill it and even tough I made some points in the center it wasn't enough to win the game. Any comments welcome.

Author:	emeraldemon [ Wed May 16, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS)
for 15, does white have time to play D17?

Author:	EdLee [ Wed May 16, 2012 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:
emeraldemon wrote: for 15, does white have time to play D17? Is there a typo in there? at B14 is the only move.

Author:	michalk [ Thu May 17, 2012 5:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: emeraldemon wrote: for 15, does white have time to play D17? Is there a typo in there? at B14 is the only move. Yes, it seems that way. Later I was wondering about the cut at D16. I don't see any way black could get a good result if white simply cuts there. Any comments on that one? Should white cut at ?

Author:	emeraldemon [ Thu May 17, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS)
Right, I meant . It feels like white didn't get a great result in that corner, I'm just wondering if there's a better way to play it.

Author:	michalk [ Fri May 18, 2012 6:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 3 handicap game (6k vs 9k DGS)
Bill Spight wrote: Some comments on the opening. Thank you for the comments Bill! I like at C17. Also, forcing L16 looks good, thanks for that suggestion. I have some questions though. After at D16 and at E16 why not cut right away? How black can resist? After at R9 what if black at R11? How should white proceed?

Author:	EdLee [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:17 am ]
Post subject:
michalk wrote: After at D16 and at E16 why not cut right away? How black can resist? Which cut, michalk? Study it more closely and find the solution for yourself. michalk wrote: After at R9 what if black at R11? How should white proceed? You missed the point of Bill's variation. Your P14 group is OK, so your original move is dame (neutral territory) but is good for B (territory). Now think about Bill's and its meaning.

Author:

michalk [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:47 am ]

Post subject:

Re:

EdLee wrote:

michalk wrote:

After

at D16 and :b24:

at E16 why not cut right away? How black can resist?

Which cut, michalk? Study it more closely and find the solution for yourself.

I mean the cut at E15. I can't see why not cut right away. I'm wondering why Bill said to leave the cut behind. Some variations:

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Author:	michalk [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: michalk wrote: After at R9 what if black at R11? How should white proceed? You missed the point of Bill's variation. Your P14 group is OK, so your original move is dame (neutral territory) but is good for B (territory). Now think about Bill's and its meaning. Yes, I know P14 is OK, my plan was to attack the K17 group. Maybe M13 or some other would be a better move to do that. Anyway, R9 looks interesting, but I'm not sure about the continuation. What if black doesn't reinforce its bottom-right corner, but attacks with R11? How should I continue? Jumping to P9 seems to give black exactly what he wants, as he can reinforce his corner now. So probably, instead of jumping, I should attack the corner somehow. But I don't see how. Could you help with that?

Author:	EdLee [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:58 am ]
Post subject:
Sorry, I thought you were talking about another cut.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:04 am ]
Post subject:
michalk wrote: my plan was to attack the K17 group. It's not clear the K17 group was your target yet: you also have to be careful with your G15 group, and W has things like the H14 peep to make your G15 group heavy while making eye-shape for K17, in sente.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:14 am ]
Post subject:
michalk wrote: What if black doesn't reinforce its bottom-right corner, but attacks with R11? How should I continue? Jumping to P9 seems to give black exactly what he wants, as he can reinforce his corner now. So probably, instead of jumping, I should attack the corner somehow. For one thing, you can count and assess the global situation. You talk about B attacking, you talk about W attacking, you talk about W jumping, you talk about B getting what he wants -- are you sure? R3 is still open, for example. You want to assess the global situation, then decide what to do.

Author:	michalk [ Sat May 19, 2012 1:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: michalk wrote: What if black doesn't reinforce its bottom-right corner, but attacks with R11? How should I continue? Jumping to P9 seems to give black exactly what he wants, as he can reinforce his corner now. So probably, instead of jumping, I should attack the corner somehow. For one thing, you can count and assess the global situation. You talk about B attacking, you talk about W attacking, you talk about W jumping, you talk about B getting what he wants -- are you sure? R3 is still open, for example. You want to assess the global situation, then decide what to do. Thank you Ed for your comments, but this one is too vague to me. Consider W R9, B R11, W P9, B Q3. After this R3 is no longer open and that's what I meant by black getting what he wants. Considering global situation black is clearly leading in territory, and there isn't a lot of points for white in the center. At least that's my assessment, maybe flawed? So considering W R9, B R11 what is a better move for white than ikken tobi? Is stealing the corner at R3 a good option? But if so, why exchange W R9 for B R11?

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