Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/ |
|
1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comments. http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7636 |
Page 1 of 1 |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:49 am ] | ||
Post subject: | 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comments. | ||
I played black in this game. Have made a few comments throughout but was hoping for some insights from others. Edit: Corrected my upload error.
|
Author: | TIM82 [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
I'm no mid-dan, 1k myself IRL, but one commment on the top left corner/top side anyways (I agree mostly with your analysis on bottom before that). I don't like 33+35 for B at all. Seems like really asking for trouble. First idea that comes up instead is standard sente 33-point invasion in upper left (rarer variations for W don't look that good at a glance), and extension on right side (probably Q10) after that. As a refinement, I would look into whether I could play M3 before the 33-point invasion - I don't have enough strenght to say anything definite about that though. Finally, if I for some reason played 33 at H17, I would follow up with H15, not M17. |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
TIM82 wrote: I'm no mid-dan, 1k myself IRL, but one commment on the top left corner/top side anyways (I agree mostly with your analysis on bottom before that). I don't like 33+35 for B at all. Seems like really asking for trouble. First idea that comes up instead is standard sente 33-point invasion in upper left (rarer variations for W don't look that good at a glance), and extension on right side (probably Q10) after that. As a refinement, I would look into whether I could play M3 before the 33-point invasion - I don't have enough strenght to say anything definite about that though. Finally, if I for some reason played 33 at H17, I would follow up with H15, not M17. Thanks for the comments. H17 is maybe an awkward spot for an invasion in this position, but in this kind of double star point double wing formation, what are the alternative invasion points other than 3-3? I think I can agree with you that M17 might have been a bit much, mainly because I couldn't afford to treat H17 lightly in the game. |
Author: | golem7 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:44 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment | ||
no mid-dan myself, but some ideas:
|
Author: | TIM82 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
cdybeijing wrote: Thanks for the comments. H17 is maybe an awkward spot for an invasion in this position, but in this kind of double star point double wing formation, what are the alternative invasion points other than 3-3? I think I can agree with you that M17 might have been a bit much, mainly because I couldn't afford to treat H17 lightly in the game. Whats the reason to look for alternative invasion points? 3-3 looks ok instead of H17 (golem7 had similar idea in his variations...)? ![]() |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
TIM82 wrote: cdybeijing wrote: Thanks for the comments. H17 is maybe an awkward spot for an invasion in this position, but in this kind of double star point double wing formation, what are the alternative invasion points other than 3-3? I think I can agree with you that M17 might have been a bit much, mainly because I couldn't afford to treat H17 lightly in the game. Whats the reason to look for alternative invasion points? 3-3 looks ok instead of H17 (golem7 had similar idea in his variations...)? ![]() I know instinctually that there is no problem with the 3-3 invasion but I think, partially out of a desire to be creative and partially not wanting to cooperate fully with white, it is unsatisfying to play. |
Author: | mitsun [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
The clamp at ![]() ![]() The invasion at ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() For an invasion of the upper left corner, I like C16. It takes a bigger corner than C17 if W blocks on the outside, and it breaks up the left side nicely if W takes the corner. The B stone at F13 should make it fairly easy for B to live or escape. The game move makes less use of the existing B stones in this area, and in the end left W with too much territory here. |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
mitsun wrote: The clamp at ![]() ![]() The invasion at ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() For an invasion of the upper left corner, I like C16. It takes a bigger corner than C17 if W blocks on the outside, and it breaks up the left side nicely if W takes the corner. The B stone at F13 should make it fairly easy for B to live or escape. The game move makes less use of the existing B stones in this area, and in the end left W with too much territory here. Thank you mitsun, very helpful commentary. |
Author: | gustav [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
Tewari analysis on black 33-35: Imagine if black played m17 immediately, and white responded with k17 (both moves would be kind of OK in this position). Then black h17 would obviously be a very bad move (and white f17 a good answer to it). |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
gustav wrote: Tewari analysis on black 33-35: Imagine if black played m17 immediately, and white responded with k17 (both moves would be kind of OK in this position). Then black h17 would obviously be a very bad move (and white f17 a good answer to it). I am a very logical person but I've often had difficult understanding some tewari analyses. It's clear that if black played M17 directly and white responded with K17, H17 would be a bad invasion. But if black played M17 directly and white responded with F17, H17 would be less-obviously a bad move. To make a deduction from a tewari analysis, do we only need to create one possible resequencing of the moves in question that gives a bad result? |
Author: | jts [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
cdybeijing wrote: gustav wrote: Tewari analysis on black 33-35: Imagine if black played m17 immediately, and white responded with k17 (both moves would be kind of OK in this position). Then black h17 would obviously be a very bad move (and white f17 a good answer to it). I am a very logical person but I've often had difficult understanding some tewari analyses. It's clear that if black played M17 directly and white responded with K17, H17 would be a bad invasion. But if black played M17 directly and white responded with F17, H17 would be less-obviously a bad move. To make a deduction from a tewari analysis, do we only need to create one possible resequencing of the moves in question that gives a bad result? I think the point is that if you can create a sequence in which one move is inefficient, then you know the resulting position is bad for the side that played the inefficient move; and if the position favors one side, it favors that side regardless of what order the moves came from. That said, I'm not sure including k17 in the tewari is valid, since it was played earlier and the game would have gone differently if the top side had been completely open. |
Author: | VincentCB [ Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1 kyu tournament game - would appreciate mid-dan comment |
As the white player in this game, I'd like to have some comments too. We had a good discussion after the game, but there are still some points that are bothering me. Here are some thoughts/questions: - Up to ![]() - ![]() ![]() - ![]() ![]() - ![]() - ![]() - ![]() Feel free to comment on any move you find questionable. Thanks in advance! -Vincent |
Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |