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| painfull game on tygem http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7689 |
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| Author: | otenki [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | painfull game on tygem |
Game with a good opening and bad ending, also known as a usual game on tygem  I would love to get some comments on shape & fighting. Not so intrested in opening or joseki comments. Btw only after I resigned I realised I could still fight by playing @h10 but it's a bit hopesuji anyway I think. Thanks! |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:48 pm ] |
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-  , do you know this is an occasional move (48 out of 50,744 games)? C5 hane (642 games); E6 extend (281 games).Do you know the meanings of the E6 extend, C5 hane, and your C7 cross-cut ? -  , what about Q7 extend or R7 wedge? Do you know Q7 extend is a shared local vital point?otenki wrote: I would love to get some comments on shape & fighting. A big part of joseki IS about shapes and fighting:Not so intrested in [...] joseki comments. -  , joseki is extend E16.-  , after , do you know E17 becomes a shared local vital point?
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| Author: | billywoods [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: - , what about Q7 extend or R7 wedge? Do you know Q7 extend is a shared local vital point?... - , after , do you know E17 becomes a shared local vital point?Agreed. Notice that this is the same shape each time. It's usually at least locally very big. Joseki is joseki for a reason!
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| Author: | otenki [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: - , do you know this is an occasional move (48 out of 50,744 games)? C5 hane (642 games); E6 extend (281 games).Do you know the meanings of the E6 extend, C5 hane, and your C7 cross-cut ? - , what about Q7 extend or R7 wedge? Do you know Q7 extend is a shared local vital point?otenki wrote: I would love to get some comments on shape & fighting. A big part of joseki IS about shapes and fighting:Not so intrested in [...] joseki comments. - , joseki is extend E16.- , after , do you know E17 becomes a shared local vital point?Yes I know its a very rare move. Most people wedge at d4 which in my opinion is a good result for me. In my opinion instead of wedging it is way better to B8. This way you have aji to invade the corner still. I think the nobi gave me more influence than I should get. (I failed to use it very well but thats another thing) The reason I play this so much is because I have experience with it. It always turns out pretty well in handicap games (where i'm receiving handi) because for some reason stronger kyu's get confused by this move and try to make their group live small in the corner So do I know the meaning of the crosscut, I think so. For me it means I want to fight about the side AND the corner, it gives aji to the oponent for invading but is very hard to use. About e6, I do play it sometimes but I find it a very hard move, there is so much aji for invading the framework you try to build because of the cut in that shape. C5 hane i know a bit, Its a trickplay right ? it depends on the ladder on for who its good for. I only played it like twice or so in all my games. About w46, I did think about the wedge but when I read it out it seemed like it made a complicate mess while my move was simpler. Why would q7 be better than P8 ? not sure I understand. b61: I know joseki is to extend BUT in the joseki he gets to cut me off on the left side which would mean i cannot harass his group anymore. (which indeed I failed to do later aswell) But this was my idea, because of creating the aji at E16 I could connect. maybe extend at e16 would give me better result indeed. I'll try to read it out more. As always, thanks a lot Ed. Otenki |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:20 am ] |
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otenki wrote: So do I know the meaning of the crosscut, I think so. You're more knowledgeable than me; I don't. otenki wrote: Most people wedge at d4 which in my opinion is a good result for me. In my opinion instead of wedging it is way better to B8. Do you know what's the most popular pro move?otenki wrote: C5 hane i know a bit, Its a trickplay right ? it depends on the ladder... Umm, look at the pro stats. The C5 hane is the most popular pro move, locally. Which ladder?
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| Author: | otenki [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: painfull game on tygem |
I saw wrong sorry. I thought you meant hoshi, aproach, attach, wedge. which is tricklay but you just meant blocking the corner with the hane which of course is an easy clean move. Cheers, Otenki |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: painfull game on tygem |
otenki wrote: So do I know the meaning of the crosscut, I think so. You never mentioned the word overconcentration, so you evidently don't. |
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| Author: | otenki [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: painfull game on tygem |
Can you elaborate ? Was the eventual board situation overconcentrated as result of the crosscut or does the crosscut make/fix overconcentration ? Thx, Otenki |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: painfull game on tygem |
The game result was brilliant for white because black played awfully and didn't capture the c7 stone. If he had followed joseki then it would have been good for him, e.g. http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfpf ... qdrfresgnc or http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfpf ... rcqbrbpbqh In both these results black gets points and strength on the left and captures c7, white gets a wall and by sacrificing the crosscut stone gets some useful forcing moves. This is a good strategy for white when black's strength is overconcentrated with an existing position on the left side, for example he already has a stone at c11. In the game black's nearest stone is d16 hoshi, so he is not overconcentrated and with the c7 sacrifice you are helping black to make a strong group and a big efficient territory (it's a lot harder to come into the left side than had you played a normal joseki). Here's an example of using the crosscut to overconcentrate: black already has that strong group at c9 on the left side so I don't want to invade there, also note black's b15 tesuji. http://www.online-go.com/games/board.php?boardID=393590 . |
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| Author: | otenki [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: painfull game on tygem |
I understand now, thank you for explaining uberdude! Cheers, Otenki |
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