Life In 19x19 :: Lack of cold blood lead to failure

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Author:

lobotommy [ Sun May 12, 2013 11:10 am ]

Post subject:

Lack of cold blood lead to failure

This is a second game against this opponent played on DGS. First one was an easy one for me, but this game turns to be an uphill struggle and finally I was forced to resign because of not enough territory.
I invaded twice, both times with horrible effects. Looks like I made very bad positional judgment, and probably I should find some way to reduce peacefully instead of more aggressive approach I choose to play in the game.
These failed invasions are mistakes I think I'm aware of, but there is whole ocean of ignorance I
fail to recongise so here I come with humble enquiry for a review

Thanks
Tomasz

Attachments:

tommyray-MarekM-802303-20130512.sgf [1.72 KiB]
Downloaded 303 times

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun May 12, 2013 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure
The first invasion was not too good. See notes in the sgf. I think that the second invasion was correct. ( But only because the unfortunate circumstances caused by the erroneous judgement on the first made desperation necessary ) Your fuseki looked good, but as the game progressed, you seemed to lose your sense of direction. In the latter half, your goals were not clearly expressed in your play.

Author:

Uberdude [ Sun May 12, 2013 2:17 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure

@Joaz re mv 36: Locally speaking f16 is generally the correct move and g15 is worse: it has a better follow up if tenukied at e14 and by taking a liberty it sets up the tesuji at c18 (black can't descend or white plays c16 and then black can't b17 extend as d16 is now atari, and if black captures white gets b17 to make shape inside). That move can actually be more than endgame and affect the eyespace of black's group, as in this famous game of Go Seigen vs Fujisawa Kuranosuke covered in John Fairbairn's 9-dan showdown book (game 1 of 4 game match). Sometimes pushing from behind is better than jumping ahead with a knight's move; Go is hard.

However, given white has already has a stone at l17 (so any pushing/jumping there feels overconcentrated, perhaps white made a mistake earlier in choosing that result) and black's moyo on the right, I agree o14 is a more important point, but I wouldn't be that surprised if a player stronger than me said f16 was actually good. Also instead of o14 black could/should have used o15 to grow the moyo in sente.

Attachments:

1951-10-01a.sgf [1.11 KiB]
Downloaded 482 times

Author:	lobotommy [ Sun May 12, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure
Thanks guys, your comments are very helpful. Lesson learned. Time to play another game then.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Sun May 12, 2013 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure
Uberdude wrote: ....Also instead of o14 black could/should have used o15 to grow the moyo in sente.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun May 12, 2013 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Uberdude wrote: ....Also instead of o14 black could/should have used o15 to grow the moyo in sente. Joaz Banbeck wrote: Joaz, because in the game, (o14) is gote (no severe follow-up, so W could tenuki with ), whereas Uber's o15, a standard shape, is sente (follow-up N17).

Author:	ez4u [ Mon May 13, 2013 1:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure
White's first invasion looked too deep. However, the main thing that struck me about the subsequent play was that White seemed unable to decide what to do. As a consequence, White kept playing stones from different directions. The first thing that comes to mind is just letting Black cut and pushing down the side as below. Black has to decide what to do next, but White seems reasonable to me since the lower right Black stones can end up in danger. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc What about this? KISS $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X O X O . . . . O . . . . O O X . \| $$ \| . . . , X O . . . , . . . . O , X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . X 3 2 O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 5 7 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 8 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author: Uberdude [ Mon May 13, 2013 3:36 am ]

Post subject: Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Uberdude wrote:

....Also instead of o14 black could/should have used o15 to grow the moyo in sente.

If White answers normally then black can grow the top boundary in sente and then play some enclosing move around :b5:

(or wonder about something like a first).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Idea $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . . O 4 2 . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X O . . . , . 3 . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 5 . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

White might try resisting, e.g. push and cut against :b1:

, but the thing to remember with that press is black can sacrifice it and build a wall instead of trying to save it in a disadvantageous fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . . O . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X O . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 6 4 3 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:	EdLee [ Mon May 13, 2013 4:50 am ]
Post subject:
Uberdude wrote: White might try resisting, e.g. push and cut against , but the thing to remember with that press is black can sacrifice it and build a wall instead of trying to save it in a disadvantageous fight. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X O X O . . . . O . . . . O O X . \| $$ \| . . . , X O . . . , . . . . O , X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 6 4 3 X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 5 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \|[/go] Or... B has miai of (a) and (b): Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . X O X O . . . . O . b . . O O X . \| $$ \| . . . , X O . . . , . . . . O , X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author: Uberdude [ Mon May 13, 2013 5:06 am ]

Post subject: Re: Lack of cold blood lead to failure

Good point Ed. As black has the ladder that's easy, but even without the ladder black can peep to make a net. But then black takes gote to make powerful thickness and white could play some reduction/invasion, compared to the thin influence in sente when white doesn't cut which allows black to play a surrounding move. So cutting increases the urgency of the local area (black wouldn't want to tenuki and allow white to extend in good shape at :b9:

). Hard to say what's best...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . . O 8 6 . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X O . . . , . 7 . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I suppose one would have to consider if white could try to break the miai in sente with a push here but probably black is ok with hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X O . . . . O . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X O . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 4 3 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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