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OCA's log
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10474		 Page 1 of 20
Author:  oca [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  OCA's log
HI, I just played my first 9 stones handicap game... as white...

What a thrill !

Despite I have lost the game (but not by that much), I'm still very happy so I decided to start a log for my games

Here is the game and as usual, any comment is very welcome !




PS : For now I call it a "log" and not "a study plan" as I decided to not have a "structured" study plan for my first year of playing.
I will sure start a study plan in october for my "go first birthday" but for now, I just want to try everything in any order with a scope as big as possible :D)
Author:  moyoaji [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
I expected this to start with OCA's log, stardate 67934.2

Probably best that it didn't... ;-)

---

Here are a couple of comments on your game:

:w29: - the hane at B7 looks promising as black would be surrounded without any eyes.

:w33: - I like this, the resulting wall is very nice for white as black crawls on the second line.

:w47: - This seems like a decent time for a 3-3 invasion.

:b62: - Black should surrender the two stones - they are not that valuable.

:w65: - You should come out here. This ko is not a real ko since your outside stones would have room to run. Just coming out would keep black's stones separated.

Move 121 doesn't need to be made unless you know you can't live there locally. Can you see a way to live without it? Even if you can't find a way, 123 is unnecessary. You need to disrupt black on the right hand side. The attachment at R10 or Q9 might be something to consider.

---

Congratulations on your first game giving 9 stones. That is always a nice accomplishment, and you came close to winning.
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca,
A few notes for your opponent, Black. :)
Author:  oca [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
Thank you both for your comments, I just have sent the link to the topic to my opponent so that he can see them too.

I did another game yesterday. I have won that one. I think I won't post that often games that I won here , but that one was weird as I made nearly all my points in the center... that's also the first I won against someone >17k

So here is the game :


I think my key move was 207 but honestly, I played that without that much conviction...in the same idea I played 199... only after my opponent's reply did I saw it was nice move...

Attachments:
GCYUASZJDK.sgf [5.18 KiB]
Downloaded 1990 times
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca,

Please see Toothpaste, and small gaps.
Basics. Broken Shapes.
Author:  oca [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
Hi Edlee,

Thanks again, so valuable for me !

for :b13: I considered "a" before choosing to play in the bottom. So I think my problem is about judgement of the value of the move in that case.

I also always miss to think with sente in mind... What I mean here is that when I saw a position I want to occupe, I directly jump into it, without thinking "let's first play that other important move first, the oppenent must reply anyway, and only then play the desired position I want to have. And if he doesn't reply, that often even better..."

So yes when I saw "a" now, I really think I should have played there...
... and if later playing in the bottom, I think I should have played "b" instead of my :b13:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm13
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca, you're welcome. There is no comparison between (a) and your :b13: (or (b) ). (a) is much bigger. It's not always about sente.
For example, a 100-point game winning gote move
is bigger than a 1-point sente move.

The choice between your :b13: and (b) is not as important.
Author:  moyoaji [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
I agree with Ed that the upper left corner is absolutely urgent. However, you can also look at what to do if black did have sente in this situation.

In Nick Sibicky's lectures he talks often about the difference between 3rd and 4th line invasion moves. He talks about these differences quite a bit in his Kyu Game Reviews lecture. I'd recommend watching the video clip as he wonderfully discusses your question of 3rd vs 4th line.
Author:  mitsun [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
It's not always about sente. For example, a 100-point game winning gote move is bigger than a 1-point sente move.
Actually, to be pedantic, the 100-point gote move is one point smaller than the sente move :)

The point of the suggested play at "a" in the game is that it destroys the efficiency of four W stones that have already been played. This is vastly more important than any single move in an open area of the board. Go is all about making your stones work together efficiently.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
mitsun, Thanks. I phrased it wrong. How about, simply, a gote move that wins the game could be the biggest move.
Author:  oca [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
I won a game yesterday on IGS, not a great game of mine, but still win so I was happy till... my rank decreased and I went back to beginner class :scratch:

At least I understand why now, that was my 20th game, and when there is 20 games, the system start to determine a rank based on your overall prestation... and on my overall prestation, that judgement is... fair :blackeye:

then it was time to go to the go club, and there I started by losing a 8 stones handicap game against 6 kyu (I lose by 6 points) and finally won 9 stones handicap against a 4 kyu by 15 points.

So overall I'm happy as I can play a bit more games per week these time, and that really all that matter to me for now.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sente and gote
mitsun wrote:
The point of the suggested play at "a" in the game is that it destroys the efficiency of four W stones that have already been played. This is vastly more important than any single move in an open area of the board. Go is all about making your stones work together efficiently.


Yes. :b13: at D-17 is absolute.

EdLee wrote:
It's not always about sente. For example, a 100-point game winning gote move is bigger than a 1-point sente move.


mitsun wrote:
Actually, to be pedantic, the 100-point gote move is one point smaller than the sente move :)


Actually, sente is ambiguous. IOW, you are both right, depending on the meaning of sente (and the meaning of bigger).

By the standard ways of evaluating plays, a 100 point gote is much bigger than a 1 point sente. But that does not mean that we should always play the 100 point gote instead of the 1 point sente.

By a different meaning of sente, however, your opponent will answer the sente, even if there is a 100 point gote on the board. In that case, you should often play the 1 point sente. (The reason for not doing so is to save the sente as a ko threat.)

And if the 100 point gote and the 1 point sente in the second sense are the only plays on the board, then, as mitsun indicates, you will do one point better to play the sente first. :)

More on this topic later. But I have to run.
Author:  oca [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
Hello,
That's time to try to come back at 17k on IGS... I think I need to win 5 games...
Here is the first one, that was a very close one.

I put a lot of comment in the sgf to explain what went into my head.

Enjoy.



Attachments:
walterh-oca.sgf [8.71 KiB]
Downloaded 1926 times
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca, you are right about :b11: , attach at E4 instead.
W tenuki'd after your :b9: extend, so make W pay for it.

:b19: atari R6.

:w26: this result is a disaster for you.
As soon as W deviated at :w18: from the 3-3 joseki you were expecting,
you got confused and completely crushed yourself
the lower right corner. Good to study this corner.
Author:  oca [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
As soon as W deviated at :w18: from the 3-3 joseki you were expecting,
you got confused and completely crushed yourself
the lower right corner. Good to study this corner.

Hi Edlee,
thank you for your comments, here is what I see if I played :b19: (or :b2: in the following sgf...) at R6



Are these variations correct sequences or are there better moves ?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
A few comments. :)



Some of the variations may be too much for you to read out during play, but I put them in to show you some possibilities. :)
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca, you're welcome. :)


What Bill refers to as "the stone eating disease," Jennie Shen 2p likes to use the term 'junk food' --
you don't want to eat junk food, and you're happy if your opponent goes after yours:
the two useless :black: stones at Q5, Q6 in the real game.
Author:  oca [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OCA's log
@Edlee : that's right... 3-3 invasion as no chance to enter the bottom side... bad strategy here :-?

In the mean time, I went to another game... so sanrensei again, and this time, that went...
Attachment:
plane.png
plane.png [ 121.36 KiB | Viewed 17439 times ]



I do not know when it started to be so wrong for me, but the sequence :b17: to :b21: seems not to be the better choice...



Attachments:
Attachment-1.sgf [2.09 KiB]
Downloaded 2150 times
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi oca, :b19: was your first big mistake — why ?
Same note as in Post 5:
Please see Toothpaste, and small gaps.
Did you read those links ? :)
Author:  oca [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Hi oca, :b19: was your first big mistake — why ?
Same note as in Post 5:
Please see Toothpaste, and small gaps.
Did you read those links ? :)


Well,.. Read... yes... assimilated... :roll:

Here are a few variations, starting at move 19 that may have been better I think :

[edit]
I just saw that in the first variation "not fantastic for me but still better.." white can do even better... so very not good for black...
[/edit]
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