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Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
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Author:  Aidoneus [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Welcome to my sulfurous abode, hope you brought nose plugs or maybe incense!

First Sniffs of Go

I first heard of Go about 25 years ago when another math professor at Indiana University played me a 9x9 game. After I beat him in our first game, he lost interest in playing again. (Clearly, he didn't know what he was doing! And I went back to playing chess.) My next encounter was about 2 years ago, when I begged a former member—and fellow Advanced Squad Leader player—of the Northwest Indiana Boardgamers Association to play me. We set a date and he slaughtered me in an even game. (He claimed to be about 2 kyu, though rusty.) Losing badly did not discourage me, but he just had no further interest in playing Go (or any more board games), so I lost interest again until last spring.

Ooh, That Smell

With no classes to teach this past summer, and my advancing age, I decided it was now or never if I was going to learn to play Go. I started with buying a Go set, Go clock, 2 Kifu record books, and Weiqi Life and Death 1000 Problems. I also bought Many Faces of Go 12 and SmartGo for studying SGF problems. I soon found that it was hard to get slow games at KGS (and somewhat at Tygem) for rank beginners, so I focused on using MFoG as a sparing partner. I worked up to winning maybe 10-15% with 5 stones against its 3-kyu setting,(I understood, and could clearly discern, a very appreciable increase in playing strength at the 3-kyu level as Monte Carlo searches kicked in.) My last summer purchase was for Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo. Also I read every Go book I could find through interlibrary loans. (As my wife also retired with the new year and only started teaching part-time this fall, I curtailed some of my profligate ways over the summer! Adding a deck just before getting hit with unexpected expenses didn't help, either.)

Intermezzo

Late August and four new classes to teach pulled me away, though I did improve my fighting some by playing igowin in spare moments, and I kept up with solving problems at goproblems.com and gochild.com.

Purple Haze

October and back to training with MFoG, though I dropped to 15-kyu before working back up to 3-kyu with a 7-stone handicap, which I can win 35-40%. I plan on pushing to 5-stones for a couple slow games this weekend. (Win or lose, I guess I can post them here.) For variety, I also downloaded Aya, which I can beat about 60% with Black, 6.5 komi, no handicap. (An online review claims it's about 8-kyu—maybe, but it is very passive compared to MFoG, which cuts at every opportunity.)

Wait for it: Next post my self-flagellation.
Author:  Aidoneus [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
My Manifold Weaknesses and Possible Corrections

Opening (say first 20-30 moves)—probably the only part of the game where I have a glimmer of understanding...or so I like to think. Read, if not entirely digested: Opening Theory Made Easy, The Direction of Play, Way of Play for the 21st Century, and various online articles and SGF problems. Still avoiding any systematic effort to learn joseki outside of basic approaches and extensions. I believe that this phase of my game is not as urgent for improvement.

Middlegame—where my collapse typically begins—win or lose, I can see by MFoG's scoring graph that my handicap usually dissipates between moves 40-80. I'm quite aware that letting my stones get disconnected—or my opponent's stones getting connected—is one of my main problems in the middlegame. Doing the connection problems at gochild may help, especially as I will try to not miss so many of these intermediate problems next time through. Did I mention that I really like doing problems? But with my aging eyesight, I much prefer doing them on my TV to squinting at multiple problems on a printed page. (I really wish more problem sets were for sale as SGFs!) Read, and no doubt mostly misunderstood: The Middle Game of Go, Vital Points and Skillful Finesse for Sabaki, Breakthrough to Shodan (in part), Train Like a Pro (just bought, barely begun), plus various online articles and videos. Besides connection issues I keep trying to get a better intuition for shape. Shape Up! and articles at senseis have helped, though it seems something I'm slow to perceive as I can't count the number of times I've found myself concentrating on keeping stones connected only to notice too late that I let a stone play on a key point that turned one of my eyes false.

Endgame—based on the problems at gochild, I am nearly clueless. In order to improve, I probably shouldn't allow the computer to resign. On the other hand, I am getting much better at life and death problems, so I reach the endgame more often.

My last slow game, MFoG at 3-kyu, 7-stones, 60 minutes (though played much faster):



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Author:  Aidoneus [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Why not. My back-to-back quick-game wins versus Aya this morning before work.



And



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Author:  Knotwilg [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Seems like mfog has no clue how to play you. Bases on this game it should take not give handicap.

1 question: how do you judge white's big group kn the upper left?
1 advice: start playing humans; leave the emotional dungeon of computer go
Author:  Aidoneus [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Knotwilg wrote:
Seems like mfog has no clue how to play you. Bases on this game it should take not give handicap.

1 question: how do you judge white's big group kn the upper left?
1 advice: start playing humans; leave the emotional dungeon of computer go


No, it would kill me at an even game. The White group is dead as far as I can tell. One eye, the other one at c13 is false. I have a13, a14, or a15 to kill any other eye if needed, I think.
Author:  DrStraw [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Aidoneus wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
Seems like mfog has no clue how to play you. Bases on this game it should take not give handicap.

1 question: how do you judge white's big group kn the upper left?
1 advice: start playing humans; leave the emotional dungeon of computer go


No, it would kill me at an even game. The White group is dead as far as I can tell. One eye, the other one at c13 is false. I have a13, a14, or a15 to kill any other eye if needed, I think.


What is W plays D15?

I was also thinking you need to stop playing the computer and start playing humans.
Author:  Aidoneus [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
DrStraw wrote:
Aidoneus wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
Seems like mfog has no clue how to play you. Bases on this game it should take not give handicap.

1 question: how do you judge white's big group kn the upper left?
1 advice: start playing humans; leave the emotional dungeon of computer go


No, it would kill me at an even game. The White group is dead as far as I can tell. One eye, the other one at c13 is false. I have a13, a14, or a15 to kill any other eye if needed, I think.


What is W plays D15?

I was also thinking you need to stop playing the computer and start playing humans.


I was thinking maybe E15, to prevent an eye at E14; and then answering C16 with C17, though I didn't finish reading it before MFoG resigned.

Machines are my only friends! :lol:
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
A few comments on the opening. :)



MFOG played pretty badly. You might try it on the 9x9.

Main focus: Divide and conquer!
Author:  Aidoneus [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Bill Spight wrote:
A few comments on the opening. :)


Just when I was thinking that I was starting to play better, thanks Bill! :sad: No, really, I deeply appreciate your suggestions. One comment in defense of the intent of some of my corner plays, though. I have been trying to apply some advice from Breakthrough to Shodan, which seems to recommended using the handicap stones to aggressively attack approach stones with pincers and/or kicks, while racing for the center. Together with knowing some tendencies of MFoG (sure, sure, I need to play people), I am no doubt misapplying some of the author's ideas. BTW, I especially appreciate seeing where I overlooked playing the better shape moves! Would you happen to have any specific recommendations for improvement in this area? Maybe I should reread Shape Up!, again.

Bill Spight wrote:
Main focus: Divide and conquer!


I'm looking for a stonecutter...

I believe that connection issues are still my most urgent need for improvement. I think that in part this is related to shape, but after you pointed out missed splitting opportunities for both sides, it is clear that I still have a long way to go. While my understanding has improved enough to grasp these moves after you point them out, I'm still missing them during play. Other than working on connection-type problems at gochild, do you have any specific suggestions? Maybe find a copy of The Art of Go Series: Connecting Stones?

One last point, MFoG plays much, much better at 1-dan settings. If I can start winning better than 25% with 5-stones against its 3-kyu setting, my plan is to move up to 7-stones against its 1-dan setting. Last time I tried, it was still too big a jump for me. When this semester ends, I plan on trying online again, probably at Tygem or KGS. Maybe re-register first at KGS as a 10- or even 8-kyu to have more opportunities? Both sites have so few DDKs, and I have absolutely no patience waiting for opponents! Too much coffee, maybe. (This old man needs regular pit stops...)
Author:  S2W [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Aidoneus wrote:
When this semester ends, I plan on trying online again, probably at Tygem or KGS. Maybe re-register first at KGS as a 10- or even 8-kyu to have more opportunities? Both sites have so few DDKs, and I have absolutely no patience waiting for opponents! Too much coffee, maybe. (This old man needs regular pit stops...)


1. Why not play people right now? If you don't have time for live games, how about correspondence games? (If you find them too slow - start more! )
2. To cut down wait time try Igs auto match - you'll get a game in no time.
3. For more study material - try YouTube (Nick Sibicky is a good place to start).

Try to play humans as soon (and as much) as you can. Computers are a sometimes food like candy. To grow up to be a big strong go player you need to eat some meat and fibre. An unbalanced diet is often the cause of flatulence.
Author:  Aidoneus [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
S2W wrote:
1. Why not play people right now? If you don't have time for live games, how about correspondence games? (If you find them too slow - start more! )
2. To cut down wait time try Igs auto match - you'll get a game in no time.
3. For more study material - try YouTube (Nick Sibicky is a good place to start).

Try to play humans as soon (and as much) as you can. Computers are a sometimes food like candy. To grow up to be a big strong go player you need to eat some meat and fibre. An unbalanced diet is often the cause of flatulence.


1. I have been thinking about doing this. But then again, what level opponent or handicap would be fair for both of us? I couldn't tell you my "true" strength. (Actually, except for the issue of matching with a human, I don't care what my "real" rank is as long as I am making some steady progress.)

2. I'll take a look at IGS, though I cannot imagine it has more beginner players than Tygem.

3. Yes, I love Nick Sibicky's videos. Also, youtube channels of Dwyrin, BadukTV, Weiqi master, and gocommentary, among others.

Diabolic sugar-bots!! Now you have me worried about diabetes!? :shock:
Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Aidoneus wrote:
1. I have been thinking about doing this. But then again, what level opponent or handicap would be fair for both of us? I couldn't tell you my "true" strength. (Actually, except for the issue of matching with a human, I don't care what my "real" rank is as long as I am making some steady progress.)


How do you find your true rank? By playing! Guess a rank and play some games. Your rank should settle somewhere pretty fast.
Author:  joellercoaster [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
You could play on OGS? You can set a provisional rank when you join - for the next bunch of games, only your rank is adjusted (not your opponents'), until yours is calculated properly. It seems like a fair way to manage the I-don't-know-my-true-rank question.
Author:  Aidoneus [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
I just took a look at OGS. There was only one non-live game on offer. Something about a year-long (!) game.

I also looked at DGS. Once I figure out the game settings, I'll give that server a try for a correspondence game or two.

Time to drive to Purdue. Thanks to everyone for all of your suggestions!
Author:  Ember [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Hi Aidoneus and welcome!

Concerning OGS I can say that it doesn't look like there is much activity compared to servers like KGS, but whenever I used to set up a game there, I nearly always found an opponent just as quickly as on KGS. That was maybe 10 months ago, I have only just come back there a few days ago, but since then the amount of players available has grown quite a bit since then and I don't see a reason why that would prove disadvantageous. ;-) That's why I'd say why don't you give it a try anyways? Also, if you consider playing correspondence games, then OGS really might be interesting for you since you can play both live and correspondence games there. There are quite a few tournaments going on there just for correspondence games, too.

Just sayin'. ^^

But most importantly: Have fun playing - "us" and not "them"! ;-)
Author:  Bonobo [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Hello Aidoneus,

I’ve just sent you a “friendship” request on OGS and a suggestion for a correspondence game :-)

Greetings, Tom

<edit>

BTW, really nice things (unrelated to the game itself) can happen in a correspondence game on OGS when both are online at the same time, suddenly realize this and decide to chat and play on live; it’s not just a great place to play and learn Go but also a nice place to meet nice people. Happens to me all the time. Sure there also are a few rude people but they are a tiny minority.

</edit>
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
If you think that I am criticizing your corner kosumis, I am not. I was just showing you alternatives. :)

As for attacking while racing to the center, the one space jumps on the right side do that. In addition, the one I recommend at move 10 is also defensive. And it keeps White separated. (Not that White is currently threatening to connect. ;))

Shape is basically about locally efficient play. Shape Up! is good. :) Also, local issues are more paramount on the 9x9 and 13x13. You might look at the haengma material on Senseis Library, too. I highly recommend doing so. :)

A heuristic for basic shape. Count the stones for each player in the local area. For instance, in the 3x3 square around :b38: there are 3 Black stones and only 1 White stone. Does Black really need two more stones there than White? Maybe so, but usually not. Similarly with :b50:. Black has 2 more stones in the 3x3 window than White. Besides, :b50: forms an empty triangle, a well known bad shape. (BTW, the later in the game, the less these disparities matter.)

As for connecting, the plays I talked about were much simpler than nearly all composed problems. See moves 4, 10, 16, and 22. Think about keeping your opponents stones separated.

You have a lot of books. At this point, playing and reviewing your own games is probably the best thing to do. :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
One thing that might be helpful is to study high handicap games. But most modern books only have a few games at each handicap. A wonderful book is Okigo jizai by Hattori Inshuku, which presents handicap game openings. Some of the plays are old fashioned, but high handicap play has not changed much in the past 200 years. ;) You can find it online at http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/861111 . That’s volume 10, with 9 stone games.

Not being able to read the Japanese text is not so bad. But you do need to be able to read the numbers on the stones. ;)

Here is a game from vol. 10, with a few comments by Hattori and a few by me. :)



Enjoy!
Author:  joellercoaster [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
Aidoneus wrote:
I just took a look at OGS. There was only one non-live game on offer.


The secret magic of OGS is the sitewide ladders - 19x19, 13x13 and 9x9. Once you join them, you can challenge any three nearby people above you (within 20 places or something) at once for each ladder. The games are correspondence, move-per-day paced or so, though you can have gaps up to three days between moves if you get busy.

Since I joined I have had at least 9 correspondence games going with people 1-5 stones stronger than me at all times (currently 15, including some friendlies and getting challenged myself). Finding opponents has been very smooth between 30k and 10k and I suspect it would be the same for other people whatever your rank :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aidoneus' Cave of Flatulence
A couple of more openings from Okigo jizai. :)
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