Life In 19x19 :: From shodan to pro

KoyoToyo, is your KGS handle correct? The account you have there is ranked 5k.

Magicwand wrote:

i know someone who started after age of 20 years old. He reached 3 stone handy from pro in 6 month which means that he improved really fast.
but he was still not good enough to become a professional.

my point is that it is really really hard to reach that level.
most professionals start when they are really young.
15 years old is too late in my opinion.

Are you saying your friend started playing go at 20 or started studying at a high level at the age of 20?

If someone is 1 dan at the age of 15 that seems reasonable to me. Yes, many professionals go pro around that age, but, as someone already mentioned with Catalin Taranu, there are some who don't even start playing go until that age and still become pro.

To say that professional go is the exclusive domain of those under the age of 15 seems unfounded. There are many exceptions to the unwritten rule that you have to train to be pro from the day you pick up the game as a child. More factors than age are involved.

Author:	KoyoToya [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:53 am ]
Post subject:	From shodan to pro
hello! im attempting to go pro. i am currently 15, and i am currently shodan i will be posting updates quite frequently

Author:	Magicwand [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
i know someone who started after age of 20 years old. He reached 3 stone handy from pro in 6 month which means that he improved really fast. but he was still not good enough to become a professional. my point is that it is really really hard to reach that level. most professionals start when they are really young. 15 years old is too late in my opinion.

Author:	KoyoToya [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
well i will definitely still try. my hope cannot be extinguished

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
For inspiration: http://senseis.xmp.net/?CatalinTaranu

Author:	wineandgolover [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
Michael Jordan once said that you miss every shot you don't take. Go for it! -B

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

From shodan to pro http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10391	Page 1 of 1

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
For a start, always know the correct connection and LD statuses and the current positional judgement. Never make a move because you guess it might be good - always make a move justified by tactical reading, strategic planning and evaluation. Reduce your blunder rate to less than 1 move per 10 games. Always play very good endgame, even during the opening and middle game. Solve LD problems 30 times faster than you do now. Consider the opponent's plans as well as your own. Acquire a great psychological stanima. These things might make you 6d. Pro requires more.

Author:	moyoaji [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
KoyoToyo, is your KGS handle correct? The account you have there is ranked 5k. Magicwand wrote: i know someone who started after age of 20 years old. He reached 3 stone handy from pro in 6 month which means that he improved really fast. but he was still not good enough to become a professional. my point is that it is really really hard to reach that level. most professionals start when they are really young. 15 years old is too late in my opinion. Are you saying your friend started playing go at 20 or started studying at a high level at the age of 20? If someone is 1 dan at the age of 15 that seems reasonable to me. Yes, many professionals go pro around that age, but, as someone already mentioned with Catalin Taranu, there are some who don't even start playing go until that age and still become pro. To say that professional go is the exclusive domain of those under the age of 15 seems unfounded. There are many exceptions to the unwritten rule that you have to train to be pro from the day you pick up the game as a child. More factors than age are involved.

Author:	Bantari [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
Hi, I don't understand this poll. - Is it "yes" for "I believe you can do it"? - Or "yes" for "go ahead, give it a shot"? - Or "yes" for "I like voting yes so why not"? Or something else? As for turning pro in your situation, anything that gets you to grow while enjoying the position you are in more is a good thing, so have fun. Just be mindful of 3 things: KGS 1d is not really a "shodan" by many definitions, but really lower. If I had a penny for each person I heard saying what you did... I'd have at least $10 by now! In spite of what you read in HnG, turning pro means a years of dedication and hard work, plenty talent, good teachers, high-level opponents - and then you have to ruthlessly outcompete others who did exactly what you did, possibly for longer than you did. Which means - a lot of luck as well. You can sure do it, but be prepared for pain along the way. So don't neglect other opportunities. I wish you all the best, but its a steep hill and the chances are stacked against you, so make sure you have a plan-B to fall back on. In other words - do not neglect education because of Go. But most importantly, and this is where many fail: there will be times when going gets really tough, when you keep losing, when you know you won't make it, when you cannot go on anymore, when it is not fun... you need to keep pushing regardless, and keep going. Or you might as well do it for fun and don't worry about being a pro or not.

Author:	Bantari [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
By the way, this reminds me of Uberdude's journal log from Korea - when he was at the BIBA. And the fact that while the Go students were busy playing Go and learning, the Go pros were happily sitting round playing Settlers of Catan or something. When I thought about it deeper, it made me really wonder... Given the chance, I would surely play Go in their position.

Author:	lemmata [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
KoyoToya wrote: hello! im attempting to go pro. i am currently 15, and i am currently shodan i will be posting updates quite frequently Hello to you, too! Good luck with everything. You are definitely not too old to start preparing to become a pro. However, understand the risks, rewards, and trade-offs. At the minimum, you should know the answers to the following questions. 1) Where is your country of residence? 2) Do you have access to professional instruction? This question is nearly the same as #1. 3) How long is the median playing career of a go pro? Assume that you are a Japanese professional for the sake of fixing an environment. 4) What is the median career annual playing income of a go pro? 5) What is the median teaching income of a go pro? 6) Are you okay with permanently immigrating to a foreign country for your career? 7) Has any pro expressed the opinion that you have the potential talent to be a tournament winner (top 1%)? 8) Would the following professional career be something that would make you happy: Someone who mostly loses in the preliminaries and has to teach kids 40 hours a week to make an income far below the level that someone with the intellectual potential to become a go pro could be making in an alternate career (say, engineering or finance). 9) Would you be happier with a high income job in your home country that would give you enough leisure and money to enjoy go purely for fun? 10) What amount of time per week are you willing to spend on preparing to be a professional? 11) What is the opportunity cost of that time? Could you be acquiring more valuable human capital with that time? 12) What is your backup plan if you fail to become a professional after investing the time, money, and effort you plan on using to become a pro? Of course, there are many more relevant questions, but I will stop there. You can probably come up with many more yourself. I urge you to know the answer to these questions before seriously embarking on your journey. I say that because the vast majority of professional go players lead rather difficult lives. Becoming a pro is hard enough, but living as one might be quite hard as well.

Author:	Solomon [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
Welcome to the forums, and cool story bro.

Author:	Magicwand [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
moyoaji wrote: KoyoToyo, is your KGS handle correct? The account you have there is ranked 5k. Magicwand wrote: i know someone who started after age of 20 years old. He reached 3 stone handy from pro in 6 month which means that he improved really fast. but he was still not good enough to become a professional. my point is that it is really really hard to reach that level. most professionals start when they are really young. 15 years old is too late in my opinion. Are you saying your friend started playing go at 20 or started studying at a high level at the age of 20? If someone is 1 dan at the age of 15 that seems reasonable to me. Yes, many professionals go pro around that age, but, as someone already mentioned with Catalin Taranu, there are some who don't even start playing go until that age and still become pro. To say that professional go is the exclusive domain of those under the age of 15 seems unfounded. There are many exceptions to the unwritten rule that you have to train to be pro from the day you pick up the game as a child. More factors than age are involved. He started at age of 23 and a pure beginner. He won US Champion 30 years ago so he is very strong player. with some mentoring he could have been japanese professional. if it took more than 1 years to reach 1D then i dont see any hope because my friend reached 5D level in his first year. it is possible to become a professional in japan but in korea or china it is different story.

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
To make professional, starting as a teenager can be young enough. Yes, most professionals start before their teenage years, but it is not impossible. It takes talent, determination and most importantly: a lot of hard work. Years and years and years of hard work. E.g. Hans Pietsch started at 12, was 8 kyu at age 16, 2 kyu at 17, 2 dan at 18, 4 dan at 19, won the German Championship at 20, moved to Japan at age 21, made professional at age 28, made professional 4 dan at age 32. Note that it took him seven years as an insei to make it. That's dedication. He could have used that time to get a college degree and start a career, and perhaps that would have been the wiser choice, career-wise. But he didn't want that, he did what he loved and dedicated his life to go.

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:
HermanHiddema wrote: Years and years and years of hard work. Note that it took him seven years as an insei to make it. And money. One has to eat, and pay the bills. Does anyone know how Mr. Pietsch supported himself during those 7 years ? In Tokyo ? His family supported him ? Parents in China today have to allocate for their Go-aspiring child the equivalent of all the expenses associated with a 4-year U.S. university education, merely to make it to the annual pro exam, and over 95% FAIL. ( 400+ candidates, only 20 new 1p's per year in China. These candidates are among the best Go amateurs in all of China, population 1.3 Billion. ) ( This is not to say all is wasted if one does not make pro. After all, over 95% among the best don't make it. It's still a tremendous experience and education, very valuable as they move on with their lives. Some top amateurs Go players can still make a living in China, either in teaching or playing in amateur Go tourneys. ) In fact, it costs more in China to make Go pro than to get the average university degree, just like it costs more to pay for private piano lessons and then for music school, to become a pro pianist. Another example: Ms. Xie Yimin's story — the stress on her and her family to support her insei life. Dream big, and good luck.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:59 am ]
Post subject:
Uberdude, Thanks. Attachment: hal.jpg [ 68.36 KiB \| Viewed 10190 times ]

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	EdLee [ Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:
ManLasvegas wrote: how many years before the one player going to pro? Which one ?

Author:	Uberdude [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: From shodan to pro
Ed, you are trying to have a conversation with a spam bot.