A nice article about Diplomacy, the board game, and their world championship.

Would be nice if someone writes a personal piece about Go.

I've never played Diplomacy; years ago a very good friend warned me against it.

I still have to read the article (saw it on HN just the other day, but forgot to add to Instapaper.) I played Diplomacy a few years ago, at a website named phpDiplomacy (very well executed.) The game is "fun," but it's probably much better between people who know each other or in person. It's too cold and "backstabby" online (in real life it is, too, but it's somewhat different.)

I even own a book about strategy for the different countries, a very fun read.

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Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Good read, but it sounds like a game I would absolutely hate to play =)

And I thought it was difficult to attract and retain people in Go.
Should be thankful.

Interesting. I played this game quite a bit during my student days over 40 years ago. I had no idea it was still going. As the articles says, it was hard to find enough people willing to allocate the time and it did not seem like the sort of game which would last into the internet age. It had not occurred to me that it could be played any way except face-to-face.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

On the contrary, with its asynchronous and secret communication, and synchronous moves, it appears to be designed for the internet. I quit after 6 months. It's addictive and i found myself thinking about it at work.

I agree. Although I first played Diplomacy almost fifty years ago, it was hard to keep seven players together for half a day or interested in turn-per-day play. I ran a few games of turn-per-class play with some of my math students back at Indiana University some thirty years ago, but when they understood that I would be the judge and they couldn't back-stab me, many lost interest. There exist several automatic judges, but the only games worth playing, IMHO, are ones restricted to veteran players. Too many people quit the moment they feel like their situation is hopeless.

The biggest advantage and disadvantage of online play is the opportunity for extensive communications with other players. Not everyone likes writing, of course, so no press games exist, but these are hollow exercises compared to the rich, imaginative public and private communiques shared among a veteran group. That can get very addictive. Yes, I am a recovering addict.

BTW, if you like Diplomacy, you might also like the Game of Thrones boardgame (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1033 ... nd-edition). We've played it several times at the Northwest Indiana Boardgamers Association (http://boardgamegeek.com/guild/1078). No one has been (literally) stabbed...yet.

Diplomacy is my #1 game nomination for "game most likely to end friendships"! You all walk in saying, "let's play a game" and 3 hours later there is blood on the floor and a gnashing of teeth...

The mechanics are great but the very fact that you can't play cooperatively for more than a few turns just means that unless EVERYONE knows not to take back-stabbing personally someone is going to walk away hurt. It is this level of expectation that really causes this phenomenon, IMO.

Compare with (Advanced) Civilization (AH board game, not the computer games): 5+ players, 10+ hours for a full game. That game has plenty of competition for resources and geo area and such, but it allows for more cooperation between players and even allows one to "play turtle" in some situations and say, "Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you" and produces less antagonism between players in my experience.

Maybe it is because a given player in Dip can only do 4-7 "things" per turn (one per piece), while Civ has dozens and dozens of possible actions. It's also not as simultaneous as Dip so maybe even offensive actions feel less "gotcha".

Anywho, I think Dip has a great game design, I have a copy in my basement, and I think I'll never, ever suggest a group of my friends to play it...

Bruce "UnDip" Young

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Currently reading: Plutarch, Cerebus, and D&Q 25th Anniversary

I've played diplomacy a bit in real life. I tried playing online, but I found it dull.

The people I've played it with have always been "gamers" and so while diplomacy betrayals certainly feel "friendship-ending" and you always reach a point where you feel like you want to cry; that's part of the game. Teaming up and flipping the board on someone who was decimating you is awesome, even when your partner inevitably unexpectedly shanks you one turn before you were planning to stab them.

If you want to be more honest, don't say "let's team up and always trust eachother no matter what forever and then win together!" (hoping to take advantage of them before gorily stabbing them in the back). Make short term agreements looking forward to more future short term, practical agreements. Never play a situation where you're open to them wiping you out. If they act cagey, they're itching to stab you.

Don't be a "kingmaker". No-one likes or respects those people, neither the person you're making win instead of yourself or all the people who's game you're ruining. Except for when you gloriously stab the person you're "kingmaking", that's always classic.

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Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Example of public press from a player:

* * *
Capri - On this small island off the coast of Italy, rumours have been circulating about a meeting between top ministers from the great powers in Europe. Existenceof this meeting has not been confirmed, but local merchants have noted the following items being ordered for guests at a secluded inn on the north coast of the island. If not for the strange mix of dishes, no one would have noticed. These items include escargot, baklava, falafel, soft cheese, wine, coffee, and figs.

Varna, Bulgaria - This normally bustling sea town has become uncomfortably quiet the past several weeks. Local merchants and shipping clerks have commented that the normal flow of goods through this town have slowed to a trickle. Conspicuously absent are ships bearing the flags of Turkey and Russia, two of the largest exporters in the region. Rumors are that both countries are having difficulties negotiating territorial agrrements.

Requesting anonymity, several Austrain expatriates have indicated that their government is involved in the background trying to keep these two countries from reaching an accord. Local officials have indicated they are hoping for the best, but being prudent by moving goods from local warehouses into the interior.

Belfast, Ireland - Locals here appear to be on edge these days. Apparently, English troops have been moving through the city to nearby points of embarkation. These activities have all been at night, leaving the local populace wondering why the secrecy. Security is high, and no interaction is being permitted between the soldiers and the locals.

Seamus Brophy, a local pub owner is very discouraged. Patronage to his pub has dropped over 50% since the troop movements. He is afraid if any more troops move, he will need to close hisbusiness. It is to be noted, that similar situations are occurring throughout the area in proximity to the local army barracks and compunds. Seamus stated, "It is a black day when England forgets its responsibilities to the common man. Letting us wither like this as they make empire," in reference to this apparent mobilisation.
* * *

Some players get very creative. Other than disappearing players, the bane of the game is the existence of several stalemate lines. A Russia/Turkey alliance that stays firm can always get a 3- or 4-way draw, often with some combination of an England/France/German alliance. Austria is mostly an all (solo win) or nothing (quick elimination) country, while Italy needs the most diplomatic skill to survive--playing between the natural Eastern and Western powers.

Thinking about this game reminds me of how much time I spent every day writing diplomatic messages and press releases.

Have to drop my comment(s) in here.

First off, very interesting article. Thanks for linking.

Second, this very seriously jeopardized friendships in my group of friends that played this a couple of times. Ah, what a game.

Personally, my biggest problem playing with my friends was based on one guy who had a ton of experience with the game (and no one else did). So the way he approached the game was very different from anyone else (and exceedingly manipulative), just based on all his previous play. Took a lot of fun out of the game.

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KGS: schultz [?].

Hi schultz, you're welcome.Sandbagging ?