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Can I get a quote on some books?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5601		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  chef [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Can I get a quote on some books?
Hi Guys

Long time no see. I'm selling my Joseki Dictionary books by Ishida Yoshio. But I have no idea how much they're worth. does anyone have any ideas?
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
Any used book's price is determined mainly by these factors:
- supply & demand (for your book: ordinary)
- condition of the book (relevant factor for your book)
Author:  BaghwanB [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
A quick look at AbeBooks shows the low price end for these to be around $15-$25 each (plus all the usual extras). But as Robert points out, what shape they are in can make a big difference. As someone who has been around various collectible scenes for a bit, I can say it all comes down to finding the "right" buyer for you, but the above figures seem to be on par (esp. considering "new" price from Kiseido is $25 each).

Bruce "Bookie" Young
Author:  Magicwand [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
there is another factor robert missed.
if the book is written more than 10 years ago then the price will need to go down.
joseki is changing every year and old joseki book containing joseki that nobody uses should have lower price.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
Which joseki dictionary contains only regularly used sequences? Many contain lots of tactically complicated variations useful for explanation but not for application. The Ishida is pretty typical in that respect. Although it has some outdated variations, finding them is actually not that easy. More relevant is, IMO, that the Ishida does not know the newer variations arisen after its publication. This does not make the Ishida useless though, provided one uses also other references for the more recent variations.

Takao's dictionary is advertised for the wrong reason. It is not the better successor of the Ishida. Rather it uses a different selection style: more simpler variations, fewer complicated variations. Either approach has its justification. In my next book, you will see that there are yet other approaches to exploring josekis in a dictionary manner.
Author:  chef [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
So is it reasonable to sell the set for $75?
Author:  oren [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
That's what they cost new. I can't think that's reasonable for a used set.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
chef wrote:
So is it reasonable to sell the set for $75?


If the condition is "as new", the buyer saves postage and does not have any risk.
Author:  cyclops [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
Don't sell, don't leave go, don't leave the forum. You still owe us a good bouillabaisse ;)
I like these books, they are well written. Just try to study a variation every once in a while.
Author:  chef [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
cyclops wrote:
Don't sell, don't leave go, don't leave the forum. You still owe us a good bouillabaisse ;)
I like these books, they are well written. Just try to study a variation every once in a while.


Haha alright here it is

1 lb of assorted white fish and shell fish
1 carrot
1 onion
1 celery stalk
1 small fennel
2 liters fish stock
1 small pinch of saffron
1 cup Pernod
salt and pepper to taste

This is SOOOOO easy. Just roughly chop everything and dump everything into a pot and bring it to a boil. Reduce it to a simmer and simmer for about 30 miuntes. Put in a blender and puree it. Strain it through a strainer. Adjust the thickness and seasoning. Eat with croutons.

I'm not leaving the forum or the game. I just needed to get rid of some stuff. Although I haven't played in a while the game is still a part of me.
Author:  Magicwand [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
chef

i think you should make a you tube video.
i am sure i will watch that.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
cyclops wrote:
they are well written.


The Ishida (or most other dictionaries) is not well written. It contains much information but leaves the reader alone with deciphering it.
Author:  cyclops [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
Off course I should have defined "well written". But to me the quality of the used language ( English ) is one aspect of it. In that respect I appreciate Ishida much more than your book "Joseki". To me it seems you usually overruled your language advisors.

edit: I deleted a first reaction because it was Off Topic and would presumably start a discussion at the wrong time.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
EDIT: Oh, after noticing your link, I wonder whether you want to discuss the topic at all. Therefore let me hide what could become an unncessary OT discussion:

cyclops wrote:
the quality of the used language ( English ) is one aspect of it. In that respect I appreciate Ishida much more than your book "Joseki".


Before we enter a long OT discussion, can you please specify whether you refer to Joseki Vol. 1 or Vol. 2? Which edition of the Ishida do you have? Mine is of 1977, translated by John Power.

Quote:
To me it seems you usually overruled your language advisors.


I always overruled them with respect to go terms because 1) many terms are new and 2) my knowledge of old terms is better than theirs. I accepted (probably by far) most of the corrections not related to go terms. In case of suggestions of alternatives, I accepted roughly a half. So to get a meaningful discussion, you need to specify whether what you (dis)like refers to go terms or to other English.

How great a relevance do you associate with a book's non-go-term language in comparison to its contents? I put it at about 1:100, except that it must have only occasional typos. Is your desired ratio completely different? Would you burn New Moves (Dinerstein) because of its many typos?

Can you give examples illustrating why you find Ishida's English more attractive?
Author:  oren [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
RobertJasiek wrote:
The Ishida (or most other dictionaries) is not well written. It contains much information but leaves the reader alone with deciphering it.


I don't own it, but I have read sections at the go center. I would also say it's well written.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
oren wrote:
I would also say it's well written.


Do you mean the go contents or the English?

Concerning the language, maybe the translation is very good but the text itself contains too much useless phrases such as the following examples from Vol. 1:

p. 160 Dia. 289: "The moves to 6 result."

p. 161 Dia. 295: "Black must answer 3 at 4, whereupon White plays 5 and 7."

***

Is the Ishida's English actually that good? Proofreaders of my books have criticised over-efficient phrases like "If 4 and 5, [...]" (Ishida 1, p. 159, Dia. 284) for using numbers without description.

So if you do refer to the language, please explain why such examples are, IYO, good English...!
Author:  oren [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
RobertJasiek wrote:
So if you do refer to the language, please explain why such examples are, IYO, good English...!


As I said, I don't own it and have only read it at the go center to go over some questions I've had on joseki. I've never found the explanations awkward or hard to follow. I found the descriptions useful and fairly good detail.

At home I have the new Takao set in Japanese, so I can't comment much on that one either.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can I get a quote on some books?
oren wrote:
to go over some questions I've had on joseki. I've never found the explanations awkward or hard to follow. I found the descriptions useful and fairly good detail.


So you have used it as a dictionary, to look up only exactly something specific? For that purpose every dictionary would do, if only it happens to have the variation you are searching. But why do you need the text? Aren't the diagrams enough for that?

I used the Ishida for learning and (more or less) understanding all those josekis (and some major variations) in it. For that purpose it is written badly. At that time, I needed to read the Ishida thrice in succession to succeed, i.e. go through the diagrams' moves thrice. The text was of little help, except as a source of keywords from which I could then guess some more general strategic concept. So above 95% of the study was my own effort applied to the diagrams' moves and the keywords. Such a book I do not call "well written" but "badly written". The concept of which contents is buried in diagrams, piles of diagrams and superfluous texts is good though; Ishida made a good selection (for his time and the intention to show also a good number of complicated failure variations).

A good selection alone does not equal good writing though. It merely means that your pure quick dictionary lookup or my extra eager repetitive study could work.

You say "fairly good detail". If you mean the diagram variations, ok; there is some detail (for the kyu learner). If you mean the text, no; apart from what the diagrams show and ladder hints or such, the text hardly offers more than keywords. E.g., Vol. 1. p. 132 Dia. 164 "the standard tesuji of 3 to 7" offers the keyword-like hint that there is a particular tesuji kind worth remembering as a tesuji (here the informed reader recognises what he may have seen elsewhere: the, what we - not the Ishida - call 'driving tesuji').
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