Also it seems to be fairly high centered on Java as a technology, which is also a limiting technology in many ways. IE the authors of the software are unwilling to go that extra mile to make the best possible product, and it shows in the basic usefulness or functionality of their product.

As opposed to what? The truly popular go servers for desktop only provide a Windows only client which seems to be much more limiting.

Not true, I have an IGS client on my iPad and on my windows machine. The problem is that writing one client that works everywhere will always limit the application to the functionality that is universal across platforms, so for example it won't be using touch technology on the iPad since it isn't implemented on a windows platform, and the windows platform will start noticeably slower and use more memory that is necessary due to the JVM being convenient for the programmer but inconvenient for the users. This is what I am talking about when I say Java programmers are not committed to going the extra mile.

I really dont know what you mean about limitations in java. Even the new GoPanda client is in Java, And it looks pretty cool. Everything seems to be moving
more towards cross platform (Something like java) Or web based (Like Kaya)
The only real drawbacks to something like Java in a programming sence is that it is dificult to micro manage your resorces. Something a game would need
to be able to run on a mid range pc, while still running the latest DirectX. Go doesnt really need that, It has more then enough resources to run great
without the need for such heavy optimization. C++ is not as common as it used to be, and outside of very specific stuff C isnt really used for programs,

Not true, I have an IGS client on my iPad and on my windows machine.

I prefer to be able to do other things while I play go, or at least have them running in the background. Browse the internet, listen to music. Check my email etc.

I play (or chat/kibitz/idle) on KGS whilst listening to music, browsing the internet, watching videos, checking email etc. I have an 8-year-old bog standard PC.

SmoothOper, I never had any problems leaving KGS open in the background while using other Java apps.

I was going to ask if you had any data on java slowing down a high-range machine to mid-range, but this is already becoming a Java discussion thread instead of what it started as. If you want to continue the discussion, we can move it elsewhere.

I have had trouble running multiple java programs. You either have to run multiple JVM's or run multiple programs in the same JVM, in the former case each invocation requires a standard gigabyte of data in overhead. If you are lucky enough that your Java programs can run on the same version of JVM, 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 ... then they can run in the same invocation, however the JVM doesn't implement kernel threads so if a program uses threads it can starve the other Java programs, and we all know Java programmers have mouths to feed too.

Just to address a couple of the falsities above

In general, you cannot run multiple java applications in the same JVM. One notable exception are application servers like Tomcat, which host multiple concurrent applications, but these are not standalone applications, and have to engineered in a very specific way. I'm aware of no widely used equivalent that will do the same for arbitrary desktop applications.

Java applications, regardless of the version they were compiled with, will usually run in a more recent version of java (i.e. something compiled in 1.5 will run in a 1.7 JVM). Write once, run anywhere.

There is no "standard gigabyte" overhead. Java applications can consume a lot of memory, true, but there's no gigabyte minimum. KGS right now is running 110 megs for me ("Working Set Memory") in Windows 7 64 bit. A lot, to be sure, but hardly a gigabyte.

Let's just say that you're about to get called on a very creative reading of that post.

*grabs popcorn*

There is a default setting, which may be interpreted as standard. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4667 ... determined

"maximum heap size: Smaller of 1/4th of the physical memory or 1GB"

Sure I may be wrong on the specifics, but anyhow if you look at it java programmers don't look very good.

I'm sorry that you are inconvenienced by trying to run all that free software that people spend lots time to write.

Well, I am not sorry, that you can't make any money on your free apps.

because Java programmers are poor programmers.

In general free apps don't make any money, regardless of how many people use them

This is a pretty big generalization, I still don't understand why you think this, or what you want to discuss