please don't go there. I mean to a go context. Endless discussions might follow. It is in an off topic forum on purpose.
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| sportmanship and soccer http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7291 |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | sportmanship and soccer |
In soccer the referee can pause the game if a player is knocked out by accident. After the pause the game gets resumed when the referee introduces the ball at the same spot where it was when he interrupted the game. The unwritten rule then is that the ball is returned to the team that was in ball possession just before the interruption. In the match between Donetsk and Nordsjaelland the Donetsk player Willian thus passed the ball in the direction of the Nordsjaelland team. Instead Donetsk player Adriano intercepted this pass and ... scored. The referee counted the goal because Adriano didn't break any official rule. But Adriano will have to defend himself in soccer court for breaking article 5 about loyality and integrity: You are not allowed to draw profit from unsportmanlike behaviour. His club won't support him. With the same logic (IMHO ) you could punish players who intentionally slow down a soccer game because their team is ahead. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
Intentionally slow down how? By delaying play, or just by playing slowly by keep away? |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
By keeping the ball in your team for example without any effort to attack. By kicking the ball out of the lines, just before the match is due to end. I don't necessarily plead for punishment but maybe Adriano shouldn't be punished as well. Even if I don't sympatise with his action. |
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| Author: | p2501 [ Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7UrQH5s6jY from 37sec on shows the goal in question |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
The description left me unsure, but now that I've seen the video, that is clearly contrary to the conduct of sportmanship. One of his teammates threw the ball back to the opposing team's keeper, and he out of the blue ran up to it and kicked it in. The goalkeeper seems pretty shocked, before he reacts. If it was a team effort from a team that was behind, I wouldn't blame it. But the conduct in that video seemed wrong. |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
The soccer court reached its verdict. One match suspended and one day volunteers work. Given the fact that his team was 0-1 behind I would do it again if I had his sportmanship. |
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| Author: | schultz [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
cyclops wrote: The soccer court reached its verdict. One match suspended and one day volunteers work. Given the fact that his team was 0-1 behind I would do it again if I had his sportmanship. It comes down to that age-old question - what will/would you do for a win? Even avoiding actual cheating (clear-cut rule breaking), there is a lot of moral/sportsmanship grey area, that plenty of people will ignore because the end result is more important to them than being a decent human being. Makes it difficult, though, since all of this is so subjective according to sport, culture, age, etc. Bringing this full circle to Go - we've had discussions about this all the time. When should you resign? Should you make that invasion even if you "know" it won't work, just trying to get your opponent to make a mistake? Timesuji? If you live by a "win-at-all-costs" mindset, you're much more likely to do something like Adriano and push those barriers for your own personal gain. |
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| Author: | daal [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
Seems to me that one win is not worth permanently damaging one's reputation. |
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| Author: | schultz [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
daal wrote: Seems to me that one win is not worth permanently damaging one's reputation. Just to make it clear (as my original post didn't really), I VERY MUCH agree with your statement. In the end, I think it shows a lack of discipline and respect when you don't do things the "right way." |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
I don't really get it, maybe because I don't just get soccer. Isn't the point of the game to kick the ball around until you can get it into your opponents goal? Why is he being punished? Because he is good at that? |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
speedchase wrote: I don't really get it, maybe because I don't just get soccer. Isn't the point of the game to kick the ball around until you can get it into your opponents goal? Why is he being punished? Because he is good at that? One of the unwritten rules of football is that, if a player is injured, you kick the ball outside the lines to allow treatment. Alternatively, the referee may stop play to allow treatment. In either case, it is considered proper sportsmanlike behaviour to (voluntarily) return the ball to the team that had possession. In this case, a Donetsk player (team mate of Adriano) wished to do exactly that, so he kicked the ball towards the keeper of Nordsjaelland. All the Nordsjaelland players there were just standing around waiting for the keeper to pick it up. Nobody, on either team, was expecting Adriano to go after the ball or to try and score. So the goal he made involved no skill at all. He simply profited, against the wishes of even his own teammate, of the confusion among the players that anyone would be as unsportsmanlike as to take advantage of such a situation. What he did was legal under the rules of play, so the referee could do nothing about it. He has now been punished under rules regarding player conduct, the same kind of rules that would apply if, e.g, a player made racist remarks towards an opponent after a game. |
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| Author: | gogameguru [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
I agree with Phelan. When you watch the video, it's the clear the other players hardly even attempted to stop him because they were so confused by his bizarre behavior. In Go, the equivalent would be something like trying to win on a technicality because your opponent accidentally (or because of a trick) played two moves in a row or recaptured a ko without playing a threat. I've seen people do that, but it always seems strange to me. |
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| Author: | cyclops [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
please don't go there. I mean to a go context. Endless discussions might follow. It is in an off topic forum on purpose.
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
Ok, spitting on your opponent in a staring contest? |
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| Author: | speedchase [ Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: sportmanship and soccer |
Thanks Herman, I understand now. |
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