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 Post subject: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #1 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:19 am 
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Have I read this correctly? The only way for black to capture is to play at 1. If white plays in the corner, black gets captured but can then play at 1 again and white cannot create two eyes. W will run out of liberties before black, so black gets the whole W group. Yay or Nay?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . X 1 X O X . . .
$$ | O O O O O X . . .
$$ | X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #2 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:32 am 
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I wouldn't call it a sacrifice, but yeah.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #3 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:34 am 
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illluck wrote:
I wouldn't call it a sacrifice, but yeah.


Is there a Go term for this? Giving up a stone or two to capture a larger group?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #4 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:35 am 
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Yes, like we discussed having your stones die in a killable eye shape is a key way of killing groups. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #5 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:39 am 
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Boidhre wrote:
Yes, like we discussed having your stones die in a killable eye shape is a key way of killing groups. :)


well, I remember looking at that problem before our game, and I remember skipping it. Last night I looked at it and it kinda worked itself out, so thanks are in order!

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #6 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:59 am 
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http://senseis.xmp.net/?Nakade is perhaps a term that may be used, though I usually don't really use a specific term but just say that "1 here kills".

I generally use sacrifice as a macro/strategic concept. A similar tactical idea to allow the opponent to capture in order to remove eyes is http://senseis.xmp.net/?ThrowIn


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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #7 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:04 am 
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It's not a sacrifice because white won't (shouldn't) capture, except as a ko threat.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #8 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:11 am 
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palapiku wrote:
It's not a sacrifice because white won't (shouldn't) capture, except as a ko threat.


So white could just let it sit and be captured? Would capturing the (black) stones help at all when counting in the end?

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #9 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:12 am 
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Xaos wrote:
illluck wrote:
I wouldn't call it a sacrifice, but yeah.


Is there a Go term for this? Giving up a stone or two to capture a larger group?


Making a play inside an eye to prevent a second eye is called an inside play. AKA nakade.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #10 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:19 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Xaos wrote:
illluck wrote:
I wouldn't call it a sacrifice, but yeah.


Is there a Go term for this? Giving up a stone or two to capture a larger group?


Making a play inside an eye to prevent a second eye is called an inside play. AKA nakade.


Thanks Bill! (and others)

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 Post subject: Re: Is the only way to sacrifice?
Post #11 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:56 am 
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Yes, like others have said, sacrifice is mostly used for a situation where there is some kind of trade: I give up a few stones and my opponent gains something from it, but I get something in return.

Here, Black loses nothing.

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