Please review beginnerâs game

PeterPeter · #1

I put a lot of thought into trying to win this game, and for the first half of the game I thought I had a chance. Unlike earlier games, on playing it back I could not see a lot of obvious tactical errors (though I am sure there are plenty there), so I am not sure how my areas ended up smaller than his. In particular, how his top-right corner ended up so big, while my area in the centre just seemed to get squashed.

Joaz Banbeck · #2

At move 9, just invoking the basic 'corners before sides' proverb would help you. He outnumbers you 2-to-1 in both upper corners. Another move would help, probably a 3-3- or 3-2. Or you could play K16 to slightly assist both of them ( although that may be a tad optimistic )

Joaz Banbeck · #3

At move 53, trying to get the center is difficult. There are still big moves available. P3 threatens to hurt his corner; B2 is big; C3 is safe; S2 is big; R12 is fun too.
And those are just moves that I see at a glance, following the full proverb of "Corners first, sides next, center last".

PeterPeter · #4

For move 53, can you explain to this confused beginner why B2 and S2 are big? They just look small to me, for this stage of the game.

Uberdude · #5

PeterPeter wrote:

In particular, how his top-right corner ended up so big, while my area in the centre just seemed to get squashed.

That's why corners, then sides, then centre. It's a lot easier to make territory in the corners as you only have to surround them on 2 sides, instead of 4 as in the centre.

Joaz Banbeck · #6

PeterPeter wrote:

For move 53, can you explain to this confused beginner why B2 and S2 are big? They just look small to me, for this stage of the game.

You have a knack for asking incisive questions. :clap:

The term 'big' often has an implied probabilistic component. In absolute terms, moves like S2 and B2 only go after small chunks of territory - maybe only 10 points. But they do it with certainty. So the real gain may be 10 points times 100% certainty of getting those 10 points, for a net profit of 10 points.

Move 53, on the other hand, attempts to get something around 40 points, but does it with low probability of success. So the real size of the move is maybe 40 points times 20% chance of success, which equals 8 points net profit.

( Caveat: the numbers 10 and 40 are chosen as examples, relying solely on my memeory of my previous post, without even looking at the board. They may not be accurate.)

Joaz Banbeck · #7

BTW, many of the terms that we use, even seemingly simple ones like 'big' or 'slow' or 'strong', are ad hoc translations of Japanese words whose full etymological depth is understood only by John Fairbairn and six Japanese octogenarians. So it gets confusing. Half of learning to play go is really learning to re-define words that you thought you knew. :lol:

topazg · #8

Some comments

PeterPeter · #9

topazg wrote:

Some comments

Thank you

It looks like a recurring fault, particularly early on, was abandoning my groups before they were sufficiently safe.

topazg · **#10**

PeterPeter wrote:

topazg wrote:

Some comments

Thank you

It looks like a recurring fault, particularly early on, was abandoning my groups before they were sufficiently safe.

I'd 100% agree with that.

Basically, make sure your stones/groups that you feel are kind of important to you have a base. If you can make a move that gives your group a decent base whilst depriving one of your opponent's groups of one, that's double-important. If you can't make a base and you really don't want to sacrifice the stone, make it safe in whatever way you can as an urgent priority. The more moves you allow your opponent to make whilst leaving the group weak, the more likely he is to profit from attacking it later.

PeterPeter · **#11**

It can be difficult to know whether or not a base is safe. For example, before move 46 here, that little group looked OK to me (a 2-point extension on the third line, plus a third stone nearby).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm46 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . O O X O . O O . X O . . . | $$ | . . O , X X X X X , O X X . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . Z . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . Z . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . Z . . O . . O . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

EdLee · **#12**

PeterPeter wrote:

For example, before move 46 here, that little group looked OK to me

Correct. (But I agree with topazg about :b23:

being iffy.) Even after :w46:

it was still OK.
The problem was later you let W add 10,000 stones near it.

PeterPeter wrote:

It can be difficult to know whether or not a base is safe.

Correct. It's a lot of work.

PeterPeter · **#13**

I lost the game before this one because while I was busy securing small areas around the edge, my opponent fenced off a huge area in the centre.

Go is a hard game.

EdLee · **#14**

PeterPeter wrote:

Go is a hard game.

Yep.

jts · **#15**

Some comments up to 100.

17: general principle: when you're strong, you can test white's commitment to his stones before making basic extensions, pincers and so on. The idea is if he decides to protect, it's harder to sacrifice the group now that he sunk an extra protective move (it's "heavy"). If he decides to sacrifice, you have a big followup immediately. So, two questions: is b strong in this corner? And how can B test w's commitment here?

23&25: I'm not really concerned to say whether 23 and 25 were good, or bad, or big, or small, or whatever. Worse; I worry that they're inconsistent. 23 says "attacking c8 is the biggest thing on the board." 25 says "protecting e17 is the biggest thing on the board." which is it? You need to have the courage of your convictions in go. Being wrong about the biggest move can be painful, but never standing up for yourself shows a lack of desire to win. When do you finally attack c8?

35: you can play L17 first. If w ignores it, you capture his group. After you play it, there's no atari. Good example of a double sente, I think.

24&34: gnu go doesn't think, ofc, but can you see what general principle white's moves fit in with?

41: general answer; in general exchanging 3rd line territory for 4th line influence is a fair trade on either side. Don't worry when this happens, don't be afraid, don't be mad that white "stole" "your" "territory". It wasn't territory and it wasn't yours, so white didn't steal it. Aim to start complex fightts where the power of your walls will prove itself. In this specific game, I feel like you got bullied around a bit and it's tough that w got good corners, the top, and good access to the center.

51: too close! In general the rule is, jump n+1 spaces for your base. Here that might be 5 spaces. Shorter jumps if you're trying to escape, longer if you are confident that the wall can't die.

66: start by reducing in sente. If he ignores any of your reducing moves, look for a way to invade. If he replies to all of them, be satisfied and turn elsewhere. Remember, white got a big corner here mainly because he played way more stones than you did. Where did you play stones while he was taking his corner? Are you getting territory from those stones?

93: show me a sequence. What are you afraid will happen if you ignore?

PeterPeter · **#16**

jts wrote:

Some comments up to 100.

17: general principle: when you're strong, you can test white's commitment to his stones before making basic extensions, pincers and so on. The idea is if he decides to protect, it's harder to sacrifice the group now that he sunk an extra protective move (it's "heavy"). If he decides to sacrifice, you have a big followup immediately. So, two questions: is b strong in this corner? And how can B test w's commitment here?

Black is strong in this quarter of the board, but the 3-3 point is a weak spot where White can easily invade and live.

Topazg noted Black playing at r5 as a variation. I can see that this challenges the White stone, while hindering White’s 2-point extension to the 3-3 invasion point. If White then strengthens his stone by stretching to q6, I need to make sure my q10 stone does not become vulnerable.

jts wrote:

23&25: I'm not really concerned to say whether 23 and 25 were good, or bad, or big, or small, or whatever. Worse; I worry that they're inconsistent. 23 says "attacking c8 is the biggest thing on the board." 25 says "protecting e17 is the biggest thing on the board." which is it? You need to have the courage of your convictions in go. Being wrong about the biggest move can be painful, but never standing up for yourself shows a lack of desire to win. When do you finally attack c8?

After

, White made a series of moves at the top of the board that I felt needed an immediate response in that area, hence the change in my direction of play. :b23:

looks like being the weak move.

jts wrote:

35: you can play L17 first. If w ignores it, you capture his group. After you play it, there's no atari. Good example of a double sente, I think.

That nobi is my knee-jerk reaction to all diagonal-tsukes like that. I should try to think more creatively, although I would doubt I would have been able to link L17 with killing the H17 group.

jts wrote:

24&34: gnu go doesn't think, ofc, but can you see what general principle white's moves fit in with?

Fencing off a corner in sente? (Black is likely to want to protect his now challenged stone)

jts wrote:

41: general answer; in general exchanging 3rd line territory for 4th line influence is a fair trade on either side. Don't worry when this happens, don't be afraid, don't be mad that white "stole" "your" "territory". It wasn't territory and it wasn't yours, so white didn't steal it. Aim to start complex fightts where the power of your walls will prove itself. In this specific game, I feel like you got bullied around a bit and it's tough that w got good corners, the top, and good access to the center.

Yes, I always feel that I am in gote, following my opponent round the board.

jts wrote:

51: too close! In general the rule is, jump n+1 spaces for your base. Here that might be 5 spaces. Shorter jumps if you're trying to escape, longer if you are confident that the wall can't die.

The only reason for this move was to protect the k15 cutting point.

jts wrote:

66: start by reducing in sente. If he ignores any of your reducing moves, look for a way to invade. If he replies to all of them, be satisfied and turn elsewhere.

OK. Like q18, for instance?

jts wrote:

93: show me a sequence. What are you afraid will happen if you ignore?

I didn’t like the idea of giving White a tower peep on the same point, but having played around with some variations, Black seems able to defend everything.

Please review beginnerâs game

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Please review beginnerâs game