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 Post subject: Re: Terms
Post #81 Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:10 pm 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure if it will be amenable to definition, or at least very precise definition due to the nature of the concept, similar to trying to put a precise numerical value on something like the value of influence.


Shhh! That's one thing I am working on. :geek:



How do you go about working on something like this? Sample game data? Would you take a large number of games and try to identify patterns in how many points resulted from that influence? Or do you take a more theoretic approach, trying to identify rules for how influence translates into points?

I suppose I have an idea on how to do an empirical analysis to try to define the value of influence, but I'm not sure how I would go about doing this in a more precise fashion.

In general, how do you "work on" something like this?

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 Post subject: Re: Terms
Post #82 Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:41 pm 
Tengen

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RobertJasiek wrote:
hyperpape wrote:
that one could not judge the practical merits of your research based on your work on Ko.


Uh, but you do know that the Ko definition paper has relatively little practical merit, while the Ko and Dame Endgames paper has also intermediate practical merit (up to 4 points per game)?
I know that distinction, but what I don't see is the distinction between the ko definition paper and the thickness definition. Both seem relatively idle for the sake of actusl play.

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 Post subject: Re: Terms
Post #83 Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:27 am 
Judan

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Ko definition paper: if you don't recognise a long cycle ko or its cycle, you might lose every 5000th game and call that immaterial.

Thickness definition: if you don't know that thickness must be well connected and well alive, you are considerably weaker than if you know this. If you can't distinguish connected / alive from better connected / better alive, you are weaker than if you can make this distinction. These things are relevant many times during each game. In particular, they are relevant for choosing moves creating / improving good connection or life as well as possible. The same applies to influence. E.g., around 5k one learns something like that walls need an extension; it is correct that walls without sufficient inherent eye shape need an extension for the sake of establishing good life and converting a heap of rubbish into thickness. With my thickness definition, this is just a special application besides lots of other applications. I have seen 4 dans that confused a target of attack (wall without extension) with thickness (wall with extension), because they were not aware of the good life requirement of thickness.

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 Post subject: Re: Terms
Post #84 Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:50 am 
Honinbo

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Kirby wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure if it will be amenable to definition, or at least very precise definition due to the nature of the concept, similar to trying to put a precise numerical value on something like the value of influence.


Shhh! That's one thing I am working on. :geek:



How do you go about working on something like this? Sample game data? Would you take a large number of games and try to identify patterns in how many points resulted from that influence? Or do you take a more theoretic approach, trying to identify rules for how influence translates into points?

I suppose I have an idea on how to do an empirical analysis to try to define the value of influence, but I'm not sure how I would go about doing this in a more precise fashion.

In general, how do you "work on" something like this?


Make hypotheses and test them. :) See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nlS9Irx7Q (Don't worry about the title, it is not accurate. ;) )

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