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 Post subject: I need help from DDKs!
Post #1 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:35 am 
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SDKs and dan players can of course help too. :cool:

I recently decided to teach myself to use LaTeX (a typesetting program), and to help with this I wrote a short booklet. It's a guide to beginners tesuji and it's attached if you want to check it out. The plan is to give this version away for free, and if there's call I might make an expanded version with problems that I could self publish for a small amount (any traditional publishers looking to give a poor guy a nice advance can of course give me a call here, hehehe).

So I'd really like to know:
Your rank
If the book was too simple/too complicated for you
If any sections were too boring (it's a bit of a dry topic but I tried to keep it entertaining)
If there's anything you think it should have covered but didn't
If any of the examples were awful
Any other comments

Thanks in advance! Much love for anyone who helps out.

PS. If you do like it (and I really hope you do, I've never done this before), please don't pass it around. This is an early draft and I have no idea what embarrassing mistakes it might contain. Wait until I've finished and you can send the final free edition to anyone you like.
PPS. I can't believe how nervous I am putting this on here.

Edit: removed the file. Message me if you would like a copy, or just wait patiently until I've finished.


Last edited by Stable on Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #2 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:14 am 
Judan
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I'm delighted to see more people trying to do beginner's guides. :bow: It is a far more difficult task than it initially appears because we often have forgotton how we learned it.

I have three suggestions.


1) Page 6: fig 3 strikes me as a bit too complex for someone who barely knows what a ladder is. It is essentially a ladder with an extra stone. The extra stone is shown as a part of the fight, but it is not obvious that it was at one time not part of the fight. It does not show that the extra stone can be a long ways away to be a ladder breaker.
I recommend an intermediate diagram - call it fig 2.5 - which would be a copy of fig 1 with the extra stone present but distant, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . X . .
$$ . . . . . . . O X .
$$ . . . . . . X X . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

...or even like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . X . .
$$ . . . . . . . O X .
$$ . . . . . . X X . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]



2) Page 8, fig 3 also seems too advanced for the beginner. It shows a peep at the hanging connection, and the subsequent filling of that connection. Yet the beginner who is still grasping the idea of connections will not understand what is going on.

I recommend replacing it with a diagram or two that shows how the hanging connection works, and what happens if the opponent tries to break it, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 6 . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O , 1 8 5 . . . , .
$$| . . . 4 2 3 . . . . 7 .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$---------------------------[/go]

...and this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 6 . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . 9 . . . . . .
$$| . . O , 1 . 5 . . . , .
$$| . . . 4 2 3 . . . . 7 .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$---------------------------[/go]


3) Somewhere in the connection section, I'd expect to see the mention of a tobi.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #3 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I recommend replacing it with a diagram or two that shows how the hanging connection works, and what happens if the opponent tries to break it, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 6 . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O , 1 8 5 . . . , .
$$| . . . 4 2 3 . . . . 7 .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$---------------------------[/go]

...and this:

Seems to be more confusing to me. As a DDK I would ask "why should you put yourself into atari". I think the way Stable started this is excellent.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #4 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Thanks for the beginner's guide, Stable! I found some useful ideas in it.

Quote:
Your rank

KGS says 18 but I expect it to settle to 19 or 20 once the averages catch up with my fluke wins.

Quote:
If the book was too simple/too complicated for you.

It was about right.

Quote:
If any sections were too boring (it's a bit of a dry topic but I tried to keep it entertaining)

No, and I bore/am annoyed by bad writing easily, so you did well.


Quote:
If there's anything you think it should have covered but didn't---
If any of the examples were awful---

Any other comments

It doesn't hurt to go over the net and ladder, though I think most people learn about those when they first start the game. 'Bending the ladder' was a new concept to me, though.

Thanks to your discussion of the bamboo joint, I think there will be less empty triangles in my future. :D

Endgame would probably be more useful if I had not discovered most of those pitfalls already through bitter experience. Should be useful to fresher newbies.

The only thing I found slightly confusing (in a noob way) about reading the diagrams is that the stones that were captured, of course, are still there on the chart. Maybe you could mark the We-Who-Are-About-To-Die somehow, just to make them stand out a little?

Anyway, thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:52 pm 
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As much trouble as I had when I was a low DDK, I would have loved to have a short and straightforward book like this one. Do you plan to expand it, or do you think this is the material you want to cover?

Here are a few thoughts. All but the first are just my first reactions. They might or might not be good ideas.

p.2 "self-evident" or "obvious" instead of "self-obvious".

"I would like the reader...merely hinted at" --this sentence might be a bit abstract. Does the beginner know what it is to merely hint at a tesuji?

p.4 I wonder if it the message would sink in even further if you spell out why fighting the net makes it worse? Maybe say that this is usually true about the sequences you'll show.

p.7 Maybe explain what's going on in the bending the ladder section?

p.17 The followup to figure 2 might not be obvious. Maybe show it, or tell the reader to ask himself what happens if Black ataris :w3:.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:25 pm 
Judan
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karaklis wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I recommend replacing it with a diagram or two that shows how the hanging connection works, and what happens if the opponent tries to break it, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 6 . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . O , 1 8 5 . . . , .
$$| . . . 4 2 3 . . . . 7 .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$---------------------------[/go]

...and this:

Seems to be more confusing to me. As a DDK I would ask "why should you put yourself into atari". I think the way Stable started this is excellent.


But you are saying this from the point of view of someone who already knows what a hanging connection is. I'm assuming that this is being read by someone who does not know.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 am 
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Let me start by saying thank you for doing this for the community. Your text is well-written and the selection of material is a perfect fit for beginners. Everything that is mentioned below are just some personal thoughts on your manuscript, and you are free to disagree with every single one of them. I hope this helps you make the text even better.

Your rank
Around KGS 7k

If the book was too simple/too complicated for you
The text was good, and the selection of the material was excellent. I especially liked that you included the importance of cutting and connecting at the start of the connection tesuji. If I'd have to point out something, I think the tempo might just be slightly (ever so slightly) too fast for beginners who still need to learn about ladders and nets. You could flesh out the text with a little more examples, and take the explanation a little slower, perhaps?

If any sections were too boring
No, Well-written, concise. Quite the opposite of boring (see above). I like the occasional metaphor (and will now hear the kraken stirring in the depths, whenever I spot a snapback ^^)

If there's anything you think it should have covered but didn't
- in the part about ladder breakers, the text is really concise, and it's a perfect description if you already know what ladder breakers look like in an actual game, perhaps include an extra example diagram of a wholeboard position, name the important stones a, b, c and refer to these in the description, this might make the text easier to understand. There's already a diagram of the failed ladder, but this section seemed kind of light on visual feedback for beginners.
- in the exercise diagrams on p6 and p7, the problems don't show the edge of the board, while the solution does. Perhaps make this more uniform?
- in the part about connecting with a solid or hanging connection, you list some of the options rather objectively, but don't really say when one or the other type is more beneficial. Personally, I've found that going for the solid connection instead of always going for the hanging connection (as many beginners do) has helped my game quite a lot. Perhaps you should emphasize that the white forcing moves can be quite sever on black, and that therefore it is better to solidly connect one side? Like you did with the bamboo joint, where you explained why the bamboo joint is better than the empty triangle.
- Overall I must say the selection of the material is really, really good, and shows you remember your own struggle to become stronger very well. It are exactly the tesuji presented here which have helped me gain quite a few stones when I started out. Good job!
- I was going to say, add some references to other books, and then I got to the last page. You have it all covered.

If any of the examples were awful
- Personally, the only example which bothered me a bit was that of the joseki sequence to explain the difference in types of connections. It's a good example, sure, but I might not include joseki sequences in a book about tesuji for beginners. Just a personal preference though, and as said before, it's not a bad example at all, just something I remember going "huh?" about when I encountered it in your text.

Any other comments
A few things I noticed about the layout. Since this is an early draft, it might not be terribly important to you, so feel free to discard the following comments:
- Perhaps try a different font? I tried changing the pdf size from anywhere between 75-200%, but the font never quite looked crisp. A somewhat blurry font (it seemed more like an aliasing problem) could significantly hamper people's interest to keep reading the text. It's much more exhausting.
- some of the lines in the diagrams seem not properly aligned (depending on what size you view the pdf at, there's some problems in the atari, hane, keima, ogeima diagrams on p3)

- p14 "We will also cover some cover some common mistakes beginners make," you seem to have some déja-vu action going on here.
- In position 3 for the endgame, it might be a good idea to add the correct move for white in this situation: the parabola (I didn't know what it was called, so I just searched the position on SL, and found this. Is this shape actually called a parabola? )
- "monkeys are stronger than they look and they will steal your fruit." Excellent, sir. Most excellent ^^


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 Post subject: Re: I need help from DDKs!
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:47 am 
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Thanks for all the comments so far! Good points from everyone, I'll definitely be looking carefully at them all.

Joaz, it's a great idea to not take "don't self atari" for granted. I'll have to consider how to approach that in a non-confusing way. :) I'm not sure how/if to approach jumps, as it feels like it gets advanced very quickly. Any ideas anyone?
Karaklis, thanks!
Inkwolf, that's exactly what I was after thankyou. Glad it was helpful to you.
Hyperpape and Hushfield thanks for the detailed comments. I've not even decided on the final page size yet, so I'm not worrying about the format just yet, but I'll keep the font issues in mind.

It might expand a little if I find some more topics that fit, but I've got no specific plans in that way yet.
Thanks again. <3

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Post #9 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:47 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
But you are saying this from the point of view of someone who already knows what a hanging connection is. I'm assuming that this is being read by someone who does not know.

Actually I am saying this from someone who knows what atari is. As for the explanation of hanging connection the figures 4-6 on page 9 seem more appropriate for explaining what a hanging connection is, so these should come first. Maybe at this point it could be helpful to show what would happen if white put himself into atari incl. the statement that putting oneself into atari is not a sensible move in the very most cases (=> at this point a link to the section "snapback" is possible to show such an exception). The figures 1-3 on page 8 look more like a practical application, so to me it seems reasonable to show these examples after the explanation of "hanging connection" with figures 4-6.

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Post #10 Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:39 am 
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I really enjoyed reading this. Answers to your questions below:

Your rank

~20k

If the book was too simple/too complicated for you
It was understandable and mostly familiar but there were certainly some things in here I had not seen before. For example both positions 2 & 3 in the endgame section are things I've probably played incorrectly.

If any sections were too boring (it's a bit of a dry topic but I tried to keep it entertaining)
Not at all boring, I did not find it overly dry.

If there's anything you think it should have covered but didn't
Hard question to answer at my level I think. It certainly wet my appetite for one of the books you mention at the end that might have more examples.

No obvious (to me) problems in the examples.


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Post #11 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:47 am 
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Thanks to all who helped, I've taken the file off so the rubbish version isn't sitting around here for posterity and I'm working on all the points brought up. If you really want a look and didn't get a chance then just let me know and I'll send it to you, but it shouldn't be too long until I'm done and have a finished version available.

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