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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #141 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:14 am 
Gosei
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perceval wrote:
@topazg
topazg wrote:
Having just said all this, Dave is definitely going to get sente after he finishes poking around in the corner, and how he uses it will have a really big impact on what's left of the board. I haven't even bothered really counting in detail yet, as there's just too much up in the air still. However, I do at least feel like the board is close enough to be an interesting game for both sides.


topazg wrote:
Ok, so standard is something like this:
.

My spider senses give me 15-20% chance of winning the game right now, so I'm not optimistic, but I haven't counted in enough detail to be more sure yet.


Your estimation of the game seemed to have drooped since W invasion of your 3 space extension, yet it doesnt seems like W really surprised your.
I wonder what happened ? did you envisage teh same situation, but now evaluate it differently ?
or did W improves substantially on your expected reading ? was there a particular unexpected move ?

Quote:
... I hope it's still interesting to those observing :)

Yes very much :clap: you an ez4u give very interesting commentaries


I have this big of swing all the time, when I lose sente. :-? If I take myself too seriously about it, I have to kick myself and get myself to just find the best move and play it.


Thanks to both players. This game is a blast to watch!

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #142 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:38 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X 5 . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sure, I was kind of expecting that :)

I have a plan, trust me :D I'll post what it is in a few moves


@perceval

Actually, no, my assessment hasn't really changed, even though my wording suggested it. I still think the game is close to even, but a pro expects to catch a third of his handicap against an amateur dan up in the endgame alone, and if the game is in the balance now, I'm probably screwed against someone this much stronger than me. My endgame isn't all that strong anyway I think.

Still, there's plenty left, and my current plan is to prevent White making any points in the middle. If I can achieve that, I'll count, and see how far ahead I am on the board. If I've got 15 points more territory than White when the dust settles, I'll give my winning odds 50%, but I suspect it will be between 0 and 5 more points, and the remainder of the midgame potential I think favours White more than Black regarding picking up a few more points - that'll bring it level at best going into yose, hence the 15-20%.

We'll just have to see :)

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #143 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:26 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As I see it, we are now in the transition from the middle game to yose. I hoped to post quite a bit of analysis of this position, but I have been too busy at work today (currently on the lunch hour ;-) ). I am generally poor at spotting the transition when I am playing over the board. As a result, I am often chasing middle-game ideas about fighting when in fact the fights are over or have become so localized as to be of little worth. This can very quickly lead to a big negative swing in points if your opponent is more on the ball and turns to taking profits ahead of you.

There are plenty of big points left on the board. However, I think it is worthwhile for me to enclose the bottom left corner. Topazg did not enter there and instead built up great thickness in the center. I think I need the lower left in order to compete on territory. There is more to it than that however.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X B . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X W c . . . . . . d . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . a . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . . . . b X 1 O X O . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . O , X . O X 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect Black to answer :w1:, probably with :b2: because it reduces the liberties of my cutting stones above and because it cedes the fewest points here. However, the exchange gives me either "a" or "b" as future plays depending on how things develop. I then expect to play :w3: and take the corner. In this situation, I also threaten to put the marked White stone in motion with "c" or possibly the diagonal play one point lower. Because of the previous play, Black has a lot of "strength" facing the center on the left but does not yet have good eye space, much less two distinct eyes. Note that if Black had played :b95: (the marked stone) at "c", this possibility would not exist.

Sadly I do not get to make two moves in a row! :scratch: So how will topazg use his sente? The other substantial issue on the board is White's center stones. Will Black be able to successfully threaten these stones, perhaps starting with the peep at "d", in order to build up the center and naturally prevent me from putting the marked stone in motion? Will Black try to strengthen the center first with some forcing move around "e"? Will Black pull something completely different out of the bag? Stay tuned! :rambo:

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #144 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:55 am 
Tengen
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I've messed up somewhere here. I don't know how I missed that move, my kosumi I alluded to earlier was bigger than I thought.

My first thought is this atari, but it's horrible:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm97 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X W O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , X 0 O X 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 3 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I don't, he saves his stone, and I suffer a large local loss. I need to really think about this.


Further thoughts:

I'm now debating between these two:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . W X b X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . a . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It depends on whether I need the most help with the circled stone, or the :w96: pair.

I've lost a good 5-10 points already compared to what I'd previously envisaged, and that makes me a bit sad :P

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #145 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:09 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not a very happy bunny right now. I can counter-atari if he plays an atari, and stay nicely connected with good shape, but my goodness is it painful to let this happen. I need to get my mojo flow back!

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #146 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:31 am 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The bottom right is full of interesting issues, but I will stick with the plan and wait to see how Black will play next.

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"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #147 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:59 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Stretching for central access whilst killing that single stone. Check out the World's Weirdest Shape in the process. I've just played out a few endgame sequences and done some counting, and I think, with komi, I'm 10-15 points behind. Sadly, that's almost resignable :(

Let's play another 20 moves and see if we're closer to confirming it :)

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #148 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:19 pm 
Gosei
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If his estimate is correct, why not try something more bold?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O B . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . 9 a O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Do I think this will work? No, but this is the only "interesting" area remaining on the board where Black can consider a comeback (again, assuming topazg's count is correct - I'm too lazy to verify).

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #149 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:56 pm 
Honinbo

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Judging the board position right now, I'd guess that black has around 50 points, and white has maybe 63.5 or so with komi.

There are still big endgame areas, though, so this could swing a lot of topazg does well in the endgame.

I do agree that playing actively is probably a good way to go, though, because I wouldn't be comfortable playing this endgame as black.

Then again, when am I ever comfortable? hahaha...

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Post #150 Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:38 am 
Tengen
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After a long day of alcohol, BBQ and other relaxing but unhealthy consumables, I'm probably not in the best frame of mind to play Go, but I'm also feeling pleasantly confident about having some fun here. I've been wanting to attack for ages. I kind of expected Dave to play B4 in the lower left, leaving me with wonderful C3 and F3 aji, but he didn't. At least I have the monkey jump.

However, although the last move may seem passive, I die lots when I attack without becoming strong first (you'd have thought by now that silly proverb would have sunk in, but no, red mist is more fun). Here, I have no settled, and I now want to attack that pesky middle group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X W X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X W . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . W W W . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . a . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I plan on peeping at "a" with the ability to pull back to "b", and if he ataris at "c", the logical move is now "d", complicating the position and creating one big bang to finish the game with. I'm outnumbered and outgunned, but that didn't stop Henry V (apologies for bringing politics onto L19 ;)), and it's not going to stop me either.

If I don't play fun, I lose, so I may as well lose in style and maximise my winning chances.

It's rather a shame Dave gets to move next really :D


This post by topazg was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, SpongeBob
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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #151 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:05 pm 
Oza
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Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . 0 . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had a very pleasant Saturday followed by a very slow Sunday. The latter was the fault of this guy. Umenishiki is one of my favorites, but there is always a price to be paid...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X W . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . 1 . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have a feeling that Black is thick and that I can not simply play yose and expect to win. So following my basic philosophy, "When in doubt, go fishing." Here we go. I would like to get some understanding of how the center will play out. This is in order to decide how to treat the marked Black stone and the bottom in general. At the same time, can I make any use of the marked White stone as I give it up.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #152 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:36 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . 1 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, let's start this fight then. The logical safe move would have been to the left of his stone, but then he plays where I just did in sente again, and builds the center. This is a bit more proactive of me. Either he pulls out, I connect underneath, and he still has some shape issues that mean he'll probably want to take gote to fix, or he plays for squeezy fun:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . 1 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . 2 O 3 . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . 4 X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I expect this, and White's :w4: I suspect will be one of the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . 1 a . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . 3 O 2 . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X b . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"c" is the big scary final showdown move, and I'm not sure if Dave's going to want to play that. If he does, I have to extend, and then maybe something like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . 1 a . . . . 7 8 O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . 3 O 2 9 . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X b . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . 5 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X 6 O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The game is still very up in the air at least :)

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #153 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:29 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2351
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . 2 O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here we go.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . 1 O 2 . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . 3 X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I am expecting and then we see where topazg wants to go from here. There are a lot of cutting points, etc. lying around.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #154 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:40 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . O O 3 . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . 4 X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger is entirely optional (and probably obvious enough)

Ooh, the excitement is unbearable :D

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #155 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:54 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2351
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Prisoners: :b1: :w100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . O O X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X 7 . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . 8 5 6 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Graham, I accept. If you connect, I will atari.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #156 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:55 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm109 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X C 3 X . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X 1 O O X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O C O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looks good - are we exchanging stones too?

Now things will get messy. I presume he's going to cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm109 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X C 3 X 4 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X 1 O O X . 5 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O C O . . . . 5 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which of these :b13: moves are bigger? Next big decision already :)

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #157 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:41 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2351
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

We do exchange, and I will leave you with this cut for the night.
I am waiting to see what direction he will go from here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . b . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 1 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . a X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am mainly thinking of "a" to seize the center or "b" to cut off his eyeless group as my two basic approaches from here.

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"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


This post by ez4u was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #158 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:07 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . 3 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, have a good night :)

This is the only move that makes sense, in hindsight. It continues to work vaguely with that peep of mine, and I need something that indirectly helps with the possibility that my now half-eyed group may get cut off:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 5 . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . 4 , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . 3 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's some fireworks ahead still, which is nice :)

I don't suppose any observers have any questions?

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #159 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:12 am 
Gosei
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Topazg:
Sure, I'll bite. You earlier mentioned considering N6, which would have been my first instinct. So, your comment sounded like you passed that up because you wanted to better support F8. Am I interpreting it correctly? Are you concerned at all about a play around L6 trying to split your groups?

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 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #160 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:14 am 
Honinbo

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@topazg:
What do you think of the balance of points, perhaps taking into account how the center is developing, compared to a few moves ago when you wrote that you felt you were 10-15 points behind.

How do you feel about the game progression since then?

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