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Offline EdLee
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Post #201 Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Just came home from the U.S. Congress closing ceremony/dinner. Need time to recover. :)
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Offline EdLee
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Post #202 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:35 pm 
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Pondering:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ . . 3 2 . . X O . O |
$$ . . 1 X . . . X O . |
$$ , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------+[/go]
Or:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . 9 8 . . X . X X O |
$$ . 7 6 . . . X O O O |
$$ . 5 2 3 . . X O . O |
$$ . . 1 X 4 . . X O . |
$$ , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #203 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #204 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:00 pm 
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After some rest, it's still this hane :wc:: locally, it seems pretty big:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ . . . 2 . . X O . O |
$$ . . W X . . . X O . |
$$ , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #205 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:10 pm 
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(For beginners.) Variation: :w1: peep is a bad idea because :b2: is sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w3: tenuki
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ . . . . . . X O . O |
$$ . . . X . 1 . X O . |
$$ , . . O X 2 X . O . |
$$ . . . O 5 . . O . . |
$$ . . . . 4 O 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #206 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Expecting the natural :b1: nobi:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ . . . 1 . . X O . O |
$$ . . W X . . . X O . |
$$ , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #207 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I believe trying to save O4 here would have been slow. I believe Ed capturing O4 now would be slow as well.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #208 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Double hane. Second diagram in Post #202.
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Offline EdLee
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Post #209 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:55 pm 
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My first feeling is this double hane :bt: is not bad for W,
because it gives W a few sente moves :w3:... :w7:, and then W gets :w9:,
and :bc: starts to get weaker. Let's see if I can do any better...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 Y 1 . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . B . . B . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 9 B . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #210 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:18 pm 
Gosei
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I guess white is weighing these.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 6 . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 1 . . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . a . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I look forward to seeing what and why.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #211 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:02 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X 1 . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #212 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:03 am 
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As planned. Let's see how Loons replies.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #213 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:33 pm 
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I accept the trigger. However, I was not expecting :w84: somehow, so move pending...
What a hard move. I say it was unexpected because Ed is allowing a cut, though I guess he does not feel threatened afterwards?

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Offline EdLee
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Post #214 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:16 am 
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Current:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 X 1 . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #215 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:21 am 
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(a) and (b) seem miai? :scratch:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #216 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:24 am 
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Another idea is the :bc: area seems a bit over-concentrated for B...
so this result is OK for W ? :scratch:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . B . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . B O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O B O . . B O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B B . . B O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O B . B . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
For example, instead of :b63: at (a), if B played :b1:, then the (b) area could become big?
I was worried about :b1:, but had no time to do anything about it.
So I thought :b63:(a) gave me a chance to take :b1: first (as :w76:).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re:
Post #217 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:43 am 
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EdLee wrote:
(a) and (b) seem miai? :scratch:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

you can not compare them because...
"b" is gote and a is "a" must move.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #218 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:46 am 
Gosei
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This seems natural, to me;
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b 1 O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , a 2 O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I am not confident on the correct use of this cut yet.

Edit: I worked out what I was trying to say with 'a' and 'b'. If black plays :b85: @ :b87: directly and white fixes at 'a', black will be able to take the peep at 'b'. However, the proverb says: "Never peep where you can cut!" Just, the order is a bit wonky with my application :P.


Hah, sniped by Magicwand

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #219 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:26 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 2 O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

(Feel free to disagree with :w86: )
Well, whatever comes next :b85: does seem like the only move. After which :b87: is also an only move*. :b85: atari at 86 leaves white with better shape options after :b87: . :b87: is necessary to stop white playing "driving" atari to take control of the centre.

*Probably not an only move; I somehow overlooked trying :b87: at eg. K5** until seconds after hitting "submit."

**Well, maybe not K5 specifically. There was more reading to be done, in any case; there might have been a good shortage of liberties trick against M4 group. Or maybe :b87: hane instead and allow white to M8 cut given he would probably "lose" that fight. Erg. Eh.

I am happy with the game move.

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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #220 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:57 pm 
Honinbo
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Thanks, Loons. :w86: was the only move. :)
(p)
B missed a chance with :b87:. If W blocks with :w2:, B cuts off :wc: in sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 3 O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O 1 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . 2 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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