I've been playing nine years (started in my late 20s), and am still stuck at the KGS 6-7k level....

what is your studying methods? i reached 1D level in 1 year.

i read every monthly magagazine from korea.
reviewed all games played by professionals during that month.
tons of life and death problems.
memorized all basic josekies and trick plays.
played at least 10 games/day with stronger players (5d or higher).

i think playing against someone stronger than 5D is the most important factor that made me strong.
they do not forgive your complacency so they will keep you on your toes.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

You have implied before that you don't do tsumego. I suspect very few can reach 1d without it. Especially if you play mostly alone online and don't have hords of 5d+ friends that seem to flock around magicwand

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it was a club environment and they were not my friends. they were mean hungry wolves. all they were intrested in was playing for money and steal my money. i had to pay my tolls to get stronger and it was worth it because i became one of those wolves after few years.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

I read a letter in a Japanese go magazine from a man who was a 1 kyu when he retired at age 50. Five years later he was a 5 dan, having advanced one dan per year. (And this was at a time when amateur Japanese 6 dans overlapped pro shodans in strength.) He probably started playing at a younger age than you, but that just shows what is possible.

I expect that you can reach amateur shodan in 4-5 years, but only if, like the letter writer, you take lessons. (And play stronger players on a regular basis. If you want to become a dan player, play against dan players.)

Good luck!

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Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Sounds both fun and expensive.

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I always thought that games of pure skill are very ill suited for that, since it will so soon become so obvious to the weaker player, that he has no chance of winning (unless he is very stupid)

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For me ive been playing around 7 month's. reached kgs 11k right now (but beating 10-9k's, and holding well aganst 8k's with no handi)

For me it is a state of mind. if i lose 4 or more times in a row i stop playing on kgs. go back review those games compaired to my winning ones. reread fundamental books and new books, take a couple teaching games from my teacher. play fallout 3 for a few days.

then i come back and usually gain 1-2 stones. this is how i passed the 12k block.

For me my ultimate goal is shodan in two years of playing.

But having that as a consent goal is bad, as the pressure of time constraints will slow you down.

So a better way (that i found) is say i want to gain 2 stones as fast as i can. how can i do this?
so i worked out a system. every day before bed i sit down and do 5-10 l&d/tsumego problems 3-6 stones higher then me.
i keep doing the same ones until they are memorized.

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I dont think its the age that stop you from reaching a certain rank, but the fact that you got less time for your hobbies as you get older

What I find interesting about the question is that we can't know the answer. I'm in a similar boat, though I was about 10 years older than you when I started and it took me a year longer to reach 6k, which by the way was the level of my first KGS mentor, and man was he strong!

When I started playing, I wasn't sure that I could even reach SDK but now, I'm starting to wonder if it might indeed be possible to reach Shodan. I'm not confident either, but like you I was heartened to read some of the replies.

Sure, starting late is probably not helpful, but it is only one of many factors. While I too would like someday to be able to answer "yes" to the question "are you a dan player," the only way that will happen is if I continue to enjoy spending my time on the game, and as long as I'm doing that it really can't be all that important what rank I've currently reached. Right?

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Patience, grasshopper.

game of go is very misleading to weaker players. although it may appears that you have convincing win with your handycap it always winddown to one mistake that causes you to lose. so they try again and again. Kerby and i can play even game and have prettymuch even game till the end.
but i assure you that if we play for money i would give him 3 stones and win most games. if the betting value goes high i would maintain more than 50% winning with 4 stone handy. you have to try them to know what i mean.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

The only thing I'd like to say in this thread is that one shouldn't be let down by the progress they make after 1 year. I've had a couple of people assume I was one of those shodan-in-a-year players because of my progress in a relatively short period of time [/ego]. Far from the truth; I barely broke DDK in 1 year, and this was with tons of playing as I had a lot of free time as a HS student then.

And I think time is the biggest reason why people get stuck, not anything with age (though it is a factor). Kids have all the free time in the world. Adults have their family, day job, and other things that take their time away from this game. The next biggest reason is motivation. From what I've seen, kids have a fiery passion to improve and hate getting stuck at their level, even if it's dan level. I notice adults tend to not have this characteristic and are more satisfied with where they are, thinking (due to the first reason) they won't improve much from where they are. Even I find myself not reviewing as many games and solving problems/going over pro games as I did when I was in HS because of these two reasons. I am hoping this will change when I fly to Korea for 1 year as an exchange student to study Badu-I mean Statistics.

Just my two cents.

I am 5k and I have a goal of KGS 1d by January 2011. I think it is attainable, but I will be happy for any improvement at all (I was 6k when I started this goal, I wrote more about it here). This thread reminds me of an old discussion on Go4Go: http://www.go4go.net/v2/modules/newbb/v ... 32&forum=6

Everyone improves at different speeds, just as some school students may understand topics faster than their peers or a pianist may reach a higher level of playing ability than another pianist. Everyone is different. As has been said here, any improvement is good; and to answer your question I think that "The Rabbit Hole" never ends.

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I expect to reach a rank where I feel satisfied with my play. Until that happens, this game will be hard to drop for me.

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I know nothing.

I do problems; what doesn't seem to help is that the problems don't look like my games. Or, more accurately, my games don't remind me of my problems. (Sometimes L&D does, but that's about it.)

I don't have the money for lessons.

dont pay for your lessons.
reason why your game done look like the problem is that you are not playing joseki.
many corner problems appears in actual game.
study life and death of corner and memorize them.

L&D is good for you because it will familiarize you with critical points.
in actual game you will learn to see good attack points and defending points.
you will also learn killing points of the shape so you do not waste your reading on something uesless.

trust me that anybody can reach 5D kgs level.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

The problem with tales like this is that they are the exception.

not only that japanese 5 dan is = 2 kyu in Kgs. very possible for any age to reach that level.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Funny. I started go seriously 2 or 3 years ago, I'm likely a little weaker than you, I'm 33, and my goal is to reach 1d.

And, despite slow progress, I have absolutely no doubt that I'll reach it someday. Unless I lose interest in go before, or some accidents

I'm not in a hurry, I have a job, a wife, and soon a child, so it can takes me years, but I don't care, I'm sure I'll be 1d some day.

Alors hauts les coeurs

Interesting to read all the different backgrounds.

I will reach Shodan (there is no question). I also believe I can reach Pro strength.

I started a little younger ... around 25 (~4 years ago). I discovered KGS, and was shocked to learn that I wasn't as good as the 12 games I'd played against my friends made me believe I was (being the strongest beginner holds no glory once you discover how bad you REALLY are ). I figured I'd find out how far I could push myself.

Like Araban, people thought I would reach 1d very shortly (in about 9 months) because I just kept improving, month over month ... I only reached 9k by the end of 18 months, and then life took me away for an 18 month hiatus (kid, new job, new house, all within a few months of each other).

Coming back to the game, I just couldn't progress beyond 7k for what seemed like a long time, up until 8 months ago or so.

What changed 8 months ago? I started teaching beginners. Specifically, I started teaching beginners about fundamentals. In doing so, I keep re-grounding myself in those fundamentals. I keep discovering over and over again how everything I learn in Go relates to the fundamentals of Go strategy.

This worked for me, but everyone has to find their own trigger; something that ties everything in Go together for them in their mind. Magicwand drilled it into his brain using Pro Games and High-Dan battles in Go Clubs. Some people do thousands of problems ... that obviously doesn't work for Fedya (at the moment, anyways).

The best option is always to get a teacher, but not just any teacher. You need to connect with your teacher on the Go board; they have to play Go in a way that inspires you ... at least, that's what I believe.

Barring a dedicated teacher, study your own games with a group of players your own strength or (even better) stronger ... KGS is awesome for this.

Just my ramblings. I believe you can do it, and so should you! Reach 1d! Reach 5d! Believe it!