I think the presence of a Go Clock is disrespectful both to the integrity of the game of Go, and to the players.

What if the Mona Lisa was painted with da Vinci racing the clock? What if he was forced to paint the smile during a sudden death countdown.

Is Go primarily a sport, emphasizing a winner and a loser, or is Go primarily an art emphasizing the highest possible quality of the craft?

However - I do recognize the very practical reasons, especially in a tournament setting (or during pseudo-anonymous online games), for the presence of a clock.

Time Tesujis and other clock strategies will never be my cup of tea.

I think most artists also work with a deadline, delivery date, or something like that. So in a way they are also on a sudden death time clock.

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Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.

That's why I like slow games, ideally without a clock.

Some might even go so far as to argue that artists sometimes seem to do their best work under a deadline or some other sort of constraint...

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That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

I feel that all games with a noticable time pressure are just training for the real thing. The clock is part of the training, but not of the game.

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

I agree that you both have a point. Sometimes a deadline can bring out the best in a person.

But I still think clocks are peripheral or even unnatural to the game of Go. Could you imagine a situation where two old friends meet after a long absence but regrettably can not play a game of Go because-even though they have access to a board and stones-they lack a clock?

I'll admit this example is absurd, but perhaps it illustrates my opinions towards the Go clock through analogy.

I don't think the situations are really comparable... You won't see two artists taking turns painting the same piece of canvas with a clock between them, either...

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That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Despite I always want to win badly, I would never feel satisfied with winning by such tricks (incl. Hamate). Each game of Go is at least half way a game, in which I want to prove to myself, that I am the stronger player.

I won't say it's unethnical, in the end it's just Tournament-Go.

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My "guide" to become stronger in Go

A win is a win in my book. The only things I find unethical in winning a go game are using distracting sounds or fidgeting, or just plain old cheating however it may come about.

I used time as a weapon in a Midnight Madness tournament (I think the time settings were 45 minutes sudden death), except the game was still pretty close. We were both 4-1, so the champion's black coffee mug was at stake! We had both spent a long time in a complicated fight, and the endgame was leading to a very close finish until I started some business in one of his corners and a nasty ko emerged. At this time I had a few minutes left while he had ~30 seconds. We played out lots of moves in a very short time (we both had speed chess experience), but stones started flying when he got to about 5 seconds. I agreed to stop the clocks to finish out the last few moves in a less chaotic fashion. The damage was done, though, and I won easily.

My first game in that tournament also ended with a time pressure blunder. It went from a 0.5 margin coin flip to absolute victory due to a missed atari.

Personally, I was pleased with each win, but I did not lord the results over my opponents. My opponents were disappointed, but gracious. Everyone knew that the time settings encouraged late-game craziness.

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I am Tartuffe from GoDiscussions.com

I would say it's poor sportsmanship rather than unethical. It's a trick that doesn't rely on skill to win. Anyone can use the clock in this manner - 30kyu to 9dan. Perhaps you (the generic 'you') should have slowed down a bit and thought more carefully about where you placed your stones like your opponent who outplayed you.

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"This is a game that rewards patience and balance. You must think like a man of action and act like a man of thought."
-Jonas Skarssen

When you start a game, though, you are agreeing to the setup of that game -- including the time constraints. At that point it is then up to you to balance how much time you are taking, as well as the actual moves you are making.

So in the end, did your opponent outplay you and get a superior position? Or did you outplay him by better managing your time and getting a superior time position?

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KGS: schultz [?].

Sorry OP, this is not a question of ethics.

Maybe you could ask if it is nice or not-nice, sportsmanlike or unsportsmanlike.

To modify the question a bit, how about if there is no bad aji on the board? The game is done; even the dame have been filled, and you are behind on the board. However, it's an absolute-timed game and your opponent has only a few seconds left. You continue, playing clearly ridiculous invasions as well as now and again an atari to force your opponent to actually look at your plays and not just press "pass" automatically.

I've lost like this in an online game and I'll freely admit I was a bit miffed. The possibility of play like this seems to be a natural consequence of absolute timing, though, so now I just avoid that (except for over-the-board where absolute timing is sometimes convenient and I just wouldn't expect people to do this).

To throw my two cents in;

Yeah, as people say, if you are playing a game with a time setting, managing that time setting is part of the game. You know that spending time reading one situation means you've traded in time reading another.

As a matter of fact I just won a game exactly like this. I was about 10 points behind, but he had a tonne of very bad aji and I started a tricky reduction. He had one 30 second time period and I had a couple of minutes. +time around 5 moves in.


And I don't like people disparaging go with non-unlimited time. I have lost games because my opponent was able to spend so many hours thinking on his turns I was well bored a third of the way through and unable to focus. Now I won't play like that.

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Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Well, it's not really your opponent's fault if you miss stamina, is it?
For me, seeing japanese top titles played over two days is the real Go. There it all comes down to skill, mental strength and of course stamina. That's the spirit, I like about Go.

Internet Go and amateur tournament Go (under one hour thinking time, although even one hour is too fast for a good Dan-level game, I suppose), well, they are the lesser evil to be ever able to play. So it's fine, but that's nothing compared to facing a friend in a match without time-limits : )

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My "guide" to become stronger in Go

Exactly. If someone spends so much time early in the game that he is unable to finish it because his clock runs out he should have spent his time more wisely to begin with. It's not about finding the best move in every situation. It's about doing the best you can given the time constraints. Time is a finite resource.

We could change the rules of the game though to see who is ahead after the first player's time runs out. But would you want to leave that decision to e.g. kgs' score estimator?

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Well, with a one hour tournament game I do always have to play more quickly than when I really play relaxed and take my time for each move. 2 hours + overtime, like in the European Championship, is a more leisurely pace I think. BUT. A competitive game without time limits? That's just madness! I would take over 3 hours for a difficult game, easily... So I don't do that .

Any game without time limits is just a friendly game, where you can experiment a bit, read something out when necessary, play quickly when reading is not necessary, and don't care about who wins.

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My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move

Hello,

In this example, why is it so important to win the game, if you know in your heart that you haven't played well enough to win it on the board?

I don't see the answer as being either ethical or unethical. I see the answer being based on why it's so important for a person to win the game in this circumstance.

Personally, I'd resign. I enjoy playing the game and don't really care about the result.

Go is an art, winning is not the only propose. If played too ugly, like climbing on the second line, rather resign.
anyone who derank others should be permanently banned from the server

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长考出臭棋.