And like every other over-analytical person, I have to question what "smarter" means.

But, by any definition, I know you can get dumber, and perhaps playing go slows that process a bit.

Not really, but it does make me more pervy...I now know whom to peep, when to peep and what to peep...

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Du hoc My | Du hoc Uc | My Ninja Works

I honestly have to say, yes Go does make you smarter. My reasoning is as follows: If I improve at Go, I usually improve in other areas as well. That improvement is what I'm calling "smart".

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My plan to become an SDK is here.

Oh? What are those other areas and how do you objectively measure their progress?

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Yes. I say that I see no correlation between how I feel about my games and how smart I am. If I feel good and progress, that doesn't mean I'm getting smarter. If I feel bad and lose two stones, that doesn't mean I have gotten more stupid. If I improve at go and improve at something else at the same time, is it go that made the other improvement happen or are there more factors involved? It's probably not go.

Btw, your picture is fantastic!

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Okay, I'll bite.

I've heard of studies (I haven't read any) that state that if someone plays chess their reading and math skills improve. I've played chess for years, and I'm relatively good at reading and math. Did chess improve those areas? I'm not sure. It could be that since I'm decent at those areas I'm more likely to like chess. You could measure progress with some sort of standardized test in reading and math. I'm only guessing that with Go players you'd see the same results.

With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure). You could test most of these with standardized tests, but the problem here is that some people do not test well. Also, testing isn't the greatest way of measuring progress, and I don't have a clue what is the best way is to measure progress.



I'd be willing to bet that Go helped, if only a little bit.

As for feeling bad and losing stones, of course you're not becoming more stupid. At that point, you might be in a really bad slump.

As for feeling good and progressing, your amount of knowledge in your head has definitely increased (or your understanding has) and I would argue that you would be smarter in that case.

All of this is, of course, IMHO.

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My plan to become an SDK is here.

It is really a matter of definition, but for me improving skills doesn't equal getting smarter.

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Go gives me nice clear metaphors that I can apply to other parts of life (not that go is my only source). It helps order my thinking. So if we identify efficiency of thought with smartness then i suppose. There is a line a friend of mine and I use jokingly "life is so much easier to understand once you can think of it as Go."

One friend I taught go to decided to quit after only a few games saying, "it's too much like life". I didn't understand how he could make such an analogy after only a few games, but it was an interesting observation that he made.

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be immersed

maybe he meant the math game of life, as opposed to the actual living of our lives.
http://www.math.com/students/wonders/life/life.html

Well put.

I agree that you can probably improve those areas by studying go. The thing that bothers me is when people attach too much meaning and make too wide generalizations from their favourite hobby. It's not just go, it happens whenever people spend much time on something. Some people really want their hobbies to have broader implications in life and society in general.

It's a game, and a fascinating one, and if studied long and hard can probably have some benefits in other areas (but hardly in relation to time spent). By studying go you get better at go. I believe if you settle with those expectations you can't go wrong. But if you are studying go in order to reap benefits elsewhere you will mostly be wasting time. There are probably much better ways to exercise those qualities.

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Agreed.

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My plan to become an SDK is here.

Learning languages and playing games like Go, chess, and bridge seem to help keep brains sharp longer later in life. Go may also reinforce things like concentration and competitive spirit in younger minds as well.

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I am Tartuffe from GoDiscussions.com

If concepts are tools for thinking, go has added many concepts to my vocabulary -- aji, miai, sabaki to name a few. I believe I am able to think thoughts that I could not without encountering these concepts, kind of like the limits mathematicians had before someone hit on the idea of "zero".

Should I prepare dinner or go buy take-out?

They're miai, so I'll just sit here and watch high dan games on KGS instead.

I recall an old saying, "If yer so smart, why ain't ya rich?"

It does seem that thinking in Go makes me ... play better Go.

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When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe. - John Muir

Personely I think that nothing can make the person smart of dumb - you are born smart or not smart - like there is nothing that can make you beautiful.
I have met chess players that were several times champions and still they do not know what is the capital of Poland, or where Bulgaria is located. If you are born not smart (like me) you will be like that forever. The question remains which path you will chose - if you chose to be a criminal for example you will be a smart criminal but nothing more. But if you chose to be a well mannered citizen, you will be happy for the rest of your life. So it is up to any person, but by playing go or chess or both, won't make you smarter. Pufff, I wrote so much and I still didn't understand what I wrote

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Stefany, web programmer

Go is interesting to me because it has it's own ways of rewarding serious, sustained effort. The more effort I put into Go, the more I find myself willing to invest similar effort into other endeavors.

It's been a large net positive in my life.

Pep talk?

Who are you and what have you done to the real Helel?

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

With all due respect, I disagree. I believe that "smart" can be learned. Of course, everyone is born with innate talents, but it's up to us how to use them. Also, if you aren't born with a talent, it does not mean that you can't acquire that talent. All it means is that talent is going to take you a longer time to learn than most people.

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My plan to become an SDK is here.