If you ask me, whether I like e.g. Volvo, it's not the same thing as asking whether I like Volvo better or worse than Mercedes-Benz.

_________________
Offending ad removed

If a person expressed liking for Volvos, and, upon further questioning, was found to have never driven any other car, would we consider their opinion to be of any value?

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Value for what? I would say that opinions should still be heard, but if there are unconsidered points, they should be brought up and discussed.

This statement seems to imply that those that the opinion of those that like Volvos is worthless. I don't think that this is the case. People that like Volvos can provide information as to why they like Volvos, even if they have not tried out other cars.

Their opinion still adds information to the table.

For the record, I have used both byo-yomi and Fisher timing. I happen to like byo-yomi better. But I didn't make this thread because I wanted to compare byo-yomi and fisher timing.

I made the thread because I was being flamed via PM by somebody that thought my opinion was worthless and irrelevant - and that I was "stupid".

So I thought it would be useful to see if there were other people that also liked byo-yomi, or if I was the only "stupid" person.

_________________
be immersed

I much prefer Canadian overtime, whether the clock is analog or computer. I do like to be able to play obvious moves quickly and have more time for more complicated situations. I've seen many people play a gote move to make life for a group that is already alive because they only had 30 seconds to read out the situation. And I think playing forcing moves in order to have more time to think is sort of silly. But then I'm old-fashioned and would most of all prefer no time limits or turn-based play with "fast" time limits like two moves per day

Nonsense. It is the ONLY thing that is relevant. The thread is entitled "Do you like it?", not "Is it the best?".

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Kirby, your personal opinion is still irrelevant. Of course you can ask people's personal opinions and likings how they want to blitz in Kgs, but from tournament perspective, you need to also consider how chosen time control perform in general use. That means in practice how well we can maintain tournament schedule and how much there will be time losses from winning positions. These are nontrivial aspects are completely irrelevant from your personal likings or dislikings. And if you really like to perform argumentation that branches deeper than just your personal likings, then you do need to take in concideration broader scope than just YOURSELF.

If we set up e.g. time settings 75min + 1x1min byouyomi, we will get games that will last anything from 150 minutes to 350 minutes. And in addition to that we will get a bunch of games where in winning position top players are quarter second too slow in pressing the clock and they lose on time. From the perspective of tournament schedule this is just intolerable situation. In pro world where only one game is played per day, situation is little different and you do not need to worry about the schedule. But when there is three games to be fitted on single day, one game should not last unpredictable long. And of course we all follow those who are the most slow players. And indeed there are those who will take advantage of every extra second that we offer them!

But if we choose fischer time bonus wisely, we can set up that every games will last no more than e.g. 180-210 minutes. This way games are predictable and we can make tight schedule without too much waiting. So with wise usage of Fischer we can prevent both main problems of Japanese byouyomi: no accidental timeloses and no loose schedules. This is the point and people seems to have difficult time understanding this. I do not understand why?

(By the way, there is going to be in winter time a tournament in Finland where time settings are 75 min + 1x30 sec and there are three games planned for Saturday. I will gladly register people's predictions about how badly tournament schedule will fail and how many top group games will be decided by time.)

I think that Liisa's posts are now verging on the realm on trolling.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

So you have difficult time understanding what loose schedule means? Is that so?

It's because nobody perceives a problem, because everything already works okay somehow. It's hard for people to see how this rules change would make everyone's life more wonderful.

'Number of top board games decided by time' seems like a meaningless statistic, incidentally.

Have there been any Go tournaments that used Fischer timing, or is the discussion of merits of Fischer purely theoretical?

From the theoretical standpoint Fischer does seem very pretty and appealing, but who knows what practical issues could come up.

Yes, there were some tournaments that used Fischer time. However, it was mostly used as an "optional alternative" for a fraction of the boards, because there were not enough capable clocks available. I think that because of this it often left an impression of "exotic and unusual" instead of "practical and useful". Where it was used for all boards, people seemed to be either indifferent or convinced.

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

Liisa, I do not have an inherent problem with using Fischer time. Fischer time is also a good system for tournament timekeeping, in my opinion.

What I have a problem with is when you call my preference toward byo-yomi irrelevant or stupid.

While I don't really have a problem with Fischer time, I don't see any real problems that byo-yomi brings about, either. As for the "loose scheduling" issue, Fischer time might address this smoothly, but I have not experienced problems with this in the past. For monthly ratings tournaments in California, for example, we do staggered self-pairing, which works pretty well. If you're done with your game, and you want to play somebody else around your level, you find somebody and play them.

For more serious tournaments, staggered self-pairing probably doesn't work as well. But at the same time, I don't mind waiting for awhile to play the next game, either. I had to do this at the Oza a few years ago, for example. It was a pretty cool experience, and a lot of fun.

So I don't have a problem with Fischer time, and I'm not trying to force my personal preference toward byo-yomi. However, I think that if people like byo-yomi, and it provides no serious problems, it is still a great system to use. This is the point that I'm trying to convey.

What made me slightly upset is when you called my preference irrelevant or stupid. I don't think that a personal preference toward a timing system is either irrelevant or stupid, especially if you will be participating in a particular tournament.

That's why people sometimes vote on things. If enough people prefer a particular option, it's good to please the masses. I only wish to express my (single) vote on this matter.

_________________
be immersed

Nothing against pedantry, but it ought to serve a purpose. After 80 years, I think it's ok to say time limits are part of the professional method.



Although specifying the details is a difficult philosophical question, it's generally agreed that there is some connection between these two issues.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

I think that there was one major (championship?) US tournament that used ca. 30 mins + 30 sec fischer increment. This is only what I know for 30 sec increment what i personally would prefer most. I just watched it from kgs, but do not know how well it was received. In finland we have had one major tournament using Fischer times (Oulun Kesä 2010 used 25 10) and a bunch of lightning tournaments. E.g. EGC 2010 lighting tournament used Fischer times (5 2 if recall correctly, i did not make it to the finals). I will try to speak out that qualifications for the Turku city championship would use 25 10 Fischer time control. And of course Fischer is one standard in Chess tournaments and servers, so it should fit even better to go because variance in amount of moves is much smaller in go than chess. Usually games will last some 240 to 300 moves.

I like it. Simple and easy

_________________
长考出臭棋.

mobile applications now do the job. I mean byo- yomi.

_________________
长考出臭棋.

Like it better than losing on time, but hate being in it

What utter nonsense. Most people are so busy watching football and drinking beer to realize that what they like best is not the best thing for them.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

I like this quote. I do not have an interest in watching football, and I don't drink beer a ton, but I want to try to remember this underlying message, and try to become a better person and better go player.

_________________
be immersed

There's many things wrong with this post, but to start with, surely you realize that I wasn't saying what people like is necessarily what's best for them, right?

_________________
Occupy Babel!