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Unethical or not
Yes, if you are clearly losing you should resign 17%  17%  [ 11 ]
No, winning on time is a legitimate win 63%  63%  [ 41 ]
It depends,.... 15%  15%  [ 10 ]
Other, please explain 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 65
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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #41 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:54 am 
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deja wrote:
I would say it's poor sportsmanship rather than unethical. It's a trick that doesn't rely on skill to win. Anyone can use the clock in this manner - 30kyu to 9dan. Perhaps you (the generic 'you') should have slowed down a bit and thought more carefully about where you placed your stones like your opponent who outplayed you.


No, it's not, it's just a strategy.

In a blitz tournament, my opponent was 9 stones stronger than I was, and when he needed more time to think in one situation. He cleverly put a stone somewhere else, that needs more reading for a player on my level (say, put a stone on 3.3 in my almost enclosed corner). If i didn't respond correctly, it would cause trouble there. In this way he had more time in reading the situation that he actually need. Note, he was not under time pressure, when he did this.

Would you consider it being a poor sportsmanship? Of course, no. I consider it to be a very smart strategy, it gains him extra time. So why do you consider the similar action under time pressure is poor sportsmanship?

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #42 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:00 am 
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Helel wrote:
Playing on hoping he will die from natural causes is perfectly fine.


Also known as the "Rubin427 clockless tesuji". ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #43 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:01 am 
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In the get strong series, they should consider adding - Get Strong at Time Management. :mrgreen:

Seriously, the strategy of playing nonsense moves that force your opponent to respond so you win on time demonstrates what? The question isn't whether it's allowed according to rules and thus within the bounds of the game. Of course it's allowed. Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't make it ethical. To win like that is perfectly legitimate but it's a hollow win.

I'm looking at this in terms of a regularly timed game. Blitz games are all about skill under time pressure, which is different. Yes, I know the OP couched the scenario in terms of a fast game.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #44 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:50 am 
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Yesterday there was a 5d blitz game on KGS where one player chose to play every single possible point on the go board at the end of the game with what I assumed was the intention to bore the opponent into resigning, escaping, or lagging out.

I agree with many here that you can take advantage of the clock, but I don't think it's black/white what is ethical.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #45 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:34 pm 
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kokomi wrote:
Helel wrote:
Resigning games which you still can win is unethical, and anyone doing it on KGS should be deranked.
(And preferably permanently banned from the server. :twisted: )


Go is an art, winning is not the only propose. If played too ugly, like climbing on the second line, rather resign.
anyone who derank others should be permanently banned from the server :twisted:

Zombie topic resurrection!
Kokomi: grammar police should really book you. You can speak English properly, so speak it properly. Edit: You could speak English better than that... Your other post was still grammatically unsafe, but it is much better. 2nd Edit: I thought I lost my 1st edit :mrgreen:

I'm starting to like where Helel is going. The meanness that he exhibits actually has a point to it.

Go is not an art, it is a battle of the mind. I'm guessing you haven't seen Hikaru no Go where people lose more than just the game, they lose their soul. Oh whoops, wrong show, but you can teach the person a lesson that they can't just have all the time that they want.

If they can't handle time restraints and they are boring you, then you have all the right to use your time to destroy them. If you are just wasting your own time and not learning anything, then you're stupid, pathetic, and boring

Either finish them quick, or don't bother playing with so much time. If you know you lost, then just resign, and suck it up.

(if you have a girlfriend) You can lose a game to your girlfriend and then propose. That's recommended. I like how you think.

Let's just put the boring person who loses on time on the ignore list, and you never have to worry about them again. Permaban is silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #46 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:54 pm 
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deja wrote:
I'm looking at this in terms of a regularly timed game.


"Regularly timed games" have a reasonable byo-yomi or some other form of overtime, so this strategy will not work anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #47 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:05 am 
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Respecting your opponent means playing your best game, which means doing everything allowed within the rules to win. Resigning when you could win is condescending, I feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #48 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:25 am 
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My stance is that its not unethical and I would not oppose my opponent doing it, but neither is it something I would like to do myself to anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #49 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:35 am 
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I think that games with absolute time settings clearly presuppose that some ways of exploiting the time pressure are unethical. Otherwise, if the sole purpose of the players is winning, the game quickly degenerates into something that I, personally, would not call go anymore. To my mind blitz-games with byo-yomi, too, are slightly degenerated games, though they still qualify for the name of go as long as a minimum of ethical obligations are acknowledged by the players (such as not playing meaningless moves in order to win on time). Time settings that reduce time pressure to a minimum - or no time setting at all - come closest to the true and pure spirit of go, as I see it.

Go without time pressure would still be go, but what would go be without ethics?

:roll:


Last edited by Aeneas on Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this unethical
Post #50 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:52 am 
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If the opponent runs out of time(or makes a mistake) in byo-yomi it's his fault, if he runs out of time in absolute time games it's the rules fault. Since go is simply not made to be played with absolute time.

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