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A few historical game records
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10930		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  tekesta [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  A few historical game records
Today I discovered this webpage with some game records. Unfortunately it's all in Turkish :oops: , but when I saw the first game record I was interested. It is dated 1253 and played between Nichiren and Nisshōmaru. I am replaying it and so far I find it to be just one big fight spreading all over the board. Perhaps this is how Go was played in 13th century Japan?

Here is the game record that caught my eye.

Image

This and a few other historical game records are found here. http://www.uzulmez.info/Files/ap2/famous.html Enjoy!
Author:  DrStraw [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few historical game records
That's really hard to follow because many of the early moves would be considered bad these days. It took more longer than normal to find them.
Author:  oren [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few historical game records
Author:  tekesta [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few historical game records
DrStraw wrote:
That's really hard to follow because many of the early moves would be considered bad these days. It took more longer than normal to find them.
Opening theory as we know it today did not exist back in 13th century Japan, from what I understand. At the time Japanese players just abandoned the Chinese custom of opening with tasukiboshi (diagonally placed star point stones) in favor of an empty board, so the style of play shown in the game record is influenced by the old Chinese way of playing. Getting into a fight as shown in this game would be considered amateurish ignorance these days. (There are amateurs that play Go this way :-| ) Even in Dōsaku's time such a way of playing would've been considered boorish, as the importance of strategic opening moves was already being observed by leading Japanese players of the time.

I do find such a way of playing to be a refreshing change of pace, even if the strategic importance of those moves is hard to grasp.

From the game record it appears that Black won by resignation.
Author:  tekesta [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A few historical game records
It is probable that Hayashi Genbi produced the game and passed it off as a Nichiren v. Kisshōmaru game. His father-in-law was a Chinese language scholar, so Genbi would've been able to access some old Chinese game records. Though, I wonder if Genbi would've attempted something that would've hurt his reputation, especially in the very important world of Go in 17th century Japan.

Still, if the game record is actually a game between Nichiren and Kisshōmaru, the playing style indicates a very recent departure from the old Chinese way of playing during a time in Japan when the upper classes of society, especially the samurai, were eschewing Chinese cultural tastes in favor of native Japanese ones.
Author:  Unusedname [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A few historical game records
What's up with the cut at M10? Seems like a much easier game for black. I'd ask a stronger player to look at that.
I think most safely at around :b72: all the way until W121.

As far as I can tell you make one super strong group and then white has too many weak groups.

How about :b84:? They fight so hard the whole time but he doesn't play K5.
Is that because of misunderstanding of shape? A strong understanding of shape? A lack of reading ability? Not having time to read? Not being willing to sacrifice?

What other move would be a strong indicator of strength?

Also I want to say it looks like a kgs blitz game.
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