Life In 19x19 :: Going to asia and knowing go.

How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

Krama wrote:

How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

Do you care if you meet someone who played college football?

I am trying to think of an analogy with an Asian coming to the U. S. In that case maybe it's like knowing how to play tennis. There is a certain class aspect to both games.

Krama wrote:

How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

Also what is this obsession with saying.. ohh you are not at least 7d amateur.. you don't play go?

Why the hell must we be at least high dan to be called go players?

Total bullshit if you ask me, and those who promote that kind of thinking.

Krama wrote:

How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

If you go around a foreign country saying their thinking is total bullshit you probably won't make a good impression. I just wanted to alert you that they might have higher expectations of your strength than in the West if you say you are a go player. I based my comment on a trend I have noticed in Chinese students (I am not Asian so maybe you don't want my input in which case I'll shut up) in that some of them don't really consider they can play Go until around 1d level (not 7d). Having said that when I visited a park in Beijing and played weiqi with some elderly gentleman there they were happy and surprised to meet a foreigner who played (and more so to lose! I was around 2d at the time, they were probably borderline dan level but had a very tricky style that would tear you to shreds if your basics are poor).

I would assume it's like coming to the west and knowing how to play Chess.

You expect it to be popular but a suprising amount of people just don't even know how to play.

Krama wrote:

How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

How about a real answer from a foreigner living in East Asia (me):

99.9% of people will respond as follows in China...

1) I don't know how to play weiqi, but I can play wuziqi ("5 stones" - connect 5 in a row to win, a child's game)

OR

2) That's nice, but I play Xiangqi

In Korea, by comparison, you will run into lots of people who play baduk regularly. If you do tsumego in public you will quickly find that the man next to you on the plane will know the answer, or the security guard at the airport, or the taxi driver, etc. etc. etc.

Specifically regarding the fact that a foreigner knows the game - they don't care. It's about the game, not you.

This is overly cynical in my view. It is true that in China most people won't know how to play weiqi, but they are certainly aware of the game and respect the intellect required to play. As a pursuit, it is generally held in higher esteem than other similar games like xiangqi.

Those are factually accurate statements.

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:38 am ]
Post subject:	Going to asia and knowing go.
Are there any asians here (mostly Chinese, Korean or Japanese) who could answer this question I have. What if I decide to go to one of those countries where go is played more widely, and let's say I meet new people and possibly friends there. What do they think of me if they find out I actually play go? Let's say you have a job interview and you get asked about your hobbies and you say you play go, and the boss decides to play a game of go with you. How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)?

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
As a 5k they won't think you can play Go

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Also what is this obsession with saying.. ohh you are not at least 7d amateur.. you don't play go? Why the hell must we be at least high dan to be called go players? Total bullshit if you ask me, and those who promote that kind of thinking. Yes, there is a difference with a total beginner who fails to see atari or ladder, but someone with a SDK ranking is a go player. Someone can be serious about go and only be 1d amateur. What if someone starts old like I did and decides to spend their life sudying go but they can't reach the higher dan levels? So they are not go players? Are local unknown soccer club players not soccer club players? Must you earn 50 million € a year to be called a soccer player?

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
I am trying to think of an analogy with an Asian coming to the U. S. In that case maybe it's like knowing how to play tennis. There is a certain class aspect to both games.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Do you care if you meet someone who played college football? Edit: Maybe lacrosse is a better analogy.

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Going to asia and knowing go. http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11074	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Bill Spight wrote: Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Do you care if you meet someone who played college football? Actually I would, but since I don't play it myself I would for example be very surprised and happy to see that some asian dude knows how to play chess (western chess). But not just to move pieces around, really play it well. (not on a grandmaster level)

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Bill Spight wrote: I am trying to think of an analogy with an Asian coming to the U. S. In that case maybe it's like knowing how to play tennis. There is a certain class aspect to both games. The problem is, tennis or any other sport is widely played anywhere in asia. Ask any asian what tennis is and there is a high chance they know what it is. Ask them about football, basketball etc. they know what it is. On the other hand ask any american or european on the street what Go, baduk, weiqi is and they will look at you with a confused face.

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Krama wrote: Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Also what is this obsession with saying.. ohh you are not at least 7d amateur.. you don't play go? Why the hell must we be at least high dan to be called go players? Total bullshit if you ask me, and those who promote that kind of thinking. If you go around a foreign country saying their thinking is total bullshit you probably won't make a good impression. I just wanted to alert you that they might have higher expectations of your strength than in the West if you say you are a go player. I based my comment on a trend I have noticed in Chinese students (I am not Asian so maybe you don't want my input in which case I'll shut up) in that some of them don't really consider they can play Go until around 1d level (not 7d). Having said that when I visited a park in Beijing and played weiqi with some elderly gentleman there they were happy and surprised to meet a foreigner who played (and more so to lose! I was around 2d at the time, they were probably borderline dan level but had a very tricky style that would tear you to shreds if your basics are poor).

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Uberdude wrote: Krama wrote: Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Also what is this obsession with saying.. ohh you are not at least 7d amateur.. you don't play go? Why the hell must we be at least high dan to be called go players? Total bullshit if you ask me, and those who promote that kind of thinking. If you go around a foreign country saying their thinking is total bullshit you probably won't make a good impression. I just wanted to alert you that they might have higher expectations of your strength than in the West if you say you are a go player. I based my comment on a trend I have noticed in Chinese students (I am not Asian so maybe you don't want my input in which case I'll shut up) in that some of them don't really consider they can play Go until around 1d level (not 7d). Having said that when I visited a park in Beijing and played weiqi with some elderly gentleman there they were happy and surprised to meet a foreigner who played (and more so to lose! I was around 2d at the time, they were probably borderline dan level but had a very tricky style that would tear you to shreds if your basics are poor). Yes, I was looking for that answer. And I did state in my original post what would happen to a low dan player.

Author:	Abyssinica [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
I would assume it's like coming to the west and knowing how to play Chess. You expect it to be popular but a suprising amount of people just don't even know how to play.

Author:	Krama [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Abyssinica wrote: I would assume it's like coming to the west and knowing how to play Chess. You expect it to be popular but a suprising amount of people just don't even know how to play. Probably yes, which is sad.

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
In Japan among young people (<40?) I postulate the most common reaction is probably (Oh yeah I know about Go, my Grandpa plays).

Author:	cdybeijing [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Uberdude wrote: Krama wrote: Krama wrote: How do people generally act once they figure a foreigner knows how to play go (and let's say you are not a beginner but a solid low dan player)? Also what is this obsession with saying.. ohh you are not at least 7d amateur.. you don't play go? Why the hell must we be at least high dan to be called go players? Total bullshit if you ask me, and those who promote that kind of thinking. If you go around a foreign country saying their thinking is total bullshit you probably won't make a good impression. I just wanted to alert you that they might have higher expectations of your strength than in the West if you say you are a go player. I based my comment on a trend I have noticed in Chinese students (I am not Asian so maybe you don't want my input in which case I'll shut up) in that some of them don't really consider they can play Go until around 1d level (not 7d). Having said that when I visited a park in Beijing and played weiqi with some elderly gentleman there they were happy and surprised to meet a foreigner who played (and more so to lose! I was around 2d at the time, they were probably borderline dan level but had a very tricky style that would tear you to shreds if your basics are poor). Ah yes, those tricksters in Ritan park. That group has been around for years.

Author:	Drew [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
How about a real answer from a foreigner living in East Asia (me): 99.9% of people will respond as follows in China... 1) I don't know how to play weiqi, but I can play wuziqi ("5 stones" - connect 5 in a row to win, a child's game) OR 2) That's nice, but I play Xiangqi In Korea, by comparison, you will run into lots of people who play baduk regularly. If you do tsumego in public you will quickly find that the man next to you on the plane will know the answer, or the security guard at the airport, or the taxi driver, etc. etc. etc. Specifically regarding the fact that a *foreigner* knows the game - they don't care. It's about the game, not you.

Author:	Drew [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Let's have a try: China's current population is estimated at 1.357 billion in 2013 by the World Bank， 1.381 billion including Taiwan if you like. I'm a neutral observer in that regard. My asserted 0.1% who play weiqi comes out as 1,381,000 people. Searching online through the "regular Chinese folks" estimates you get all sorts of numbers from 5mil up through 30mil players. Right around 15mil seems to be the most common estimate, which would be 1%. Then this lovely saying turned up: 俗话说，100个中国男生里有90个都会下中国象棋，但会下围棋的可能只有5个。 ("It is said, among 100 Chinese men 90 can play xiangqi, but only 5 can play weiqi.") Assuming no women play we'd be at ~4% of the population, assuming they play the same rate as men we'd be at 10%... probably far too high. Searching through official news didn't find anything. Even this article, titled roughly "Figuring out the Chinese weiqi population" doesn't provide an estimate. (Chinese clickbait?) So, in the interest of satisfying our curiosity, I just emailed the 围棋棋院 asking for an estimate. If they write back I'll be sure to share here. 99.9% don't play is an order of magnitude too severe, but based on the above I'm quite comfortable with changing my assertion to 99% don't play.

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Author:	cdybeijing [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Drew wrote: How about a real answer from a foreigner living in East Asia (me): 99.9% of people will respond as follows in China... 1) I don't know how to play weiqi, but I can play wuziqi ("5 stones" - connect 5 in a row to win, a child's game) OR 2) That's nice, but I play Xiangqi In Korea, by comparison, you will run into lots of people who play baduk regularly. If you do tsumego in public you will quickly find that the man next to you on the plane will know the answer, or the security guard at the airport, or the taxi driver, etc. etc. etc. Specifically regarding the fact that a *foreigner* knows the game - they don't care. It's about the game, not you. This is overly cynical in my view. It is true that in China most people won't know how to play weiqi, but they are certainly aware of the game and respect the intellect required to play. As a pursuit, it is generally held in higher esteem than other similar games like xiangqi.

Author:	Drew [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
cdybeijing wrote: This is overly cynical in my view. It is true that in China most people won't know how to play weiqi, but they are certainly aware of the game and respect the intellect required to play. As a pursuit, it is generally held in higher esteem than other similar games like xiangqi. No cynicism was implied or meant. I also don't think anything I wrote questioned respect for the game. Wuziqi IS a child's game, and the standard responses are just as I've listed them. Because it is related to weiqi - same board, same stones - people will offer to play that instead because that's what they are able to play. I think you've read way too much into my post. I meant what I wrote and nothing more. Those are factually accurate statements.

Author:	Uberdude [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Drew wrote: 99.9% of people... Drew wrote: Those are factually accurate statements. [citation needed]

Author:	often [ Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
if you do interact with someone who at least understands Go, they typically start with "oh what Dan are you?" but yea, most people have no clue what Go really is over there. or if they do, its barely even any knowledge about it.

Author:	gowan [ Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Going to asia and knowing go.
Our perception of how many people play go is skewed by ourselves being players. Go players in the USA probably know quite a few other go players but we have much less contact with shogi players in the USA. Of course there are more people in Japan who play shogi than are go players.