I'll accept a misclick undo, and I'll take my opponent's word for it. It's a game, and life's too short for me to quibble on trust stuff. If he says something like "oh, wait, that doesn't work" and then requests an undo, I might refuse though
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| What is your undo policy? http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11849 |
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| Author: | DJLLAP [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What is your undo policy? |
I played a game today in which my opponent made a bad move, paused 5 seconds or so and then requested an undo. My general policy is to never accept an undo unless it is an obvious misclick, so I refused his request. He ended up resigning and letting me know he was upset with me. I had a little bit of guilt about doubting thee trust between players, but it didn't last long. I never request an undo even in the case of the most outrageous misclicks, so my policy towards myself is more strict than towards others. I was curious what others made of this and what balance they make between generosity of spirit and guarding against being taken advantage of. I couldn't figure a way to incorporate it into the poll well, but I am especially interested in what conditions you will request an undo compared to the conditions in which you will grant one. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I'll accept a misclick undo, and I'll take my opponent's word for it. It's a game, and life's too short for me to quibble on trust stuff. If he says something like "oh, wait, that doesn't work" and then requests an undo, I might refuse though
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I'm usually willing to allow undos, as long as they are reasonable. I did refuse once, though. It was a long time ago, at a lower level...I had just captured a group, and the opponent asked for an undo. I expected him to tenuki, instead of adding another stone to the doomed group, as he had before, but he immediately asked for another undo. I told him that I didn't mind him fixing a misclick or mistake, but I wasn't going to let him rewind the game five moves. He complained, then, that there was no point in his playing any more, since he would lose. He probably eventually resigned. I no longer remember. Fixing misclicks is fine with me, and I don't even mind very much if someone wants to just take back a bad move, as long as they don't go overboard to pretend it was a misclick when it was obviously not. |
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| Author: | Jordus [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I'm going to be a troll  ... what if it is a live in-person game? what then people? what then??!?!?! **edit** sorry I couldn't help myself |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Code: if it won't affect the outcome of the game:
ok undo else: if opponent's rank < my rank or my opponent didn't say hi back or my opponent already asked for undo: no undo else: ok undo |
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| Author: | Jordus [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Araban wrote: Code: if it won't affect the outcome of the game: ok undo else: if opponent's rank < my rank or my opponent didn't say hi back or my opponent already asked for undo: no undo else: ok undo I like the if else programmer logic. |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Jordus wrote: I'm going to be a troll ... what if it is a live in-person game? what then people? what then??!?!?! **edit** sorry I couldn't help myself I have accidentally placed a stone on an intersection I didn't intend to in an in-person tournament before, giving myself an empty triangle instead of cutting off my opponent's dying group. I don't know what to say apart from "It happens. Get over it." |
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| Author: | DalekSnare [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I'll give an undo as long as I haven't gone yet; I figure then it's like DGS where you can play a move and then hit cancel as many times as you like before submitting it. If I've gone already, then no undo. If something is an obvious misclick then I'll pause to give them time to request undo. On the other hand, I wouldn't request an undo unless it was a game-ruining obvious misclick, but I would request undo then just to offer my opponent the satisfaction of winning by outplaying me without the assistance of misclicks, if they want it. I wouldn't grumble if they decided to say no though, I just think it's fair to see if they were enjoying the game and want to finish it without a misclick changing everything. |
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| Author: | topazg [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Jordus wrote: I'm going to be a troll ... what if it is a live in-person game? what then people? what then??!?!?! **edit** sorry I couldn't help myself As trollish as you were trying to be, I can't help myself thinking "meh, I'd probably allow that as well"
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
topazg wrote: Jordus wrote: I'm going to be a troll ... what if it is a live in-person game? what then people? what then??!?!?! **edit** sorry I couldn't help myself As trollish as you were trying to be, I can't help myself thinking "meh, I'd probably allow that as well" In a tournament it would not be permitted and in a casual game you are probably playing with a friend and so would allow it. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Depends. Like so many things in Go, there are so many exceptions and special cases. Such as:
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| Author: | Kirby [ Tue May 19, 2015 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
For me, it just depends on my mood. Undo is like giving to charity. It might make you feel warm inside, but I don't feel guilty if I don't give. If I am walking into the store, and some beggar asks for change, if I feel OK, maybe I'll give it to him. But if I don't feel like it, I'll say no. If that beggar then proceeds to try to make me feel bad or guilty, I don't appreciate it. If you are a beggar - well, that's your prerogative. But if you're going to complain about it, I'd prefer you just got a job - or a decent mouse. |
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| Author: | Inkwolf [ Tue May 19, 2015 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
EdLee wrote: Depends. Like so many things in Go, there are so many exceptions and special cases. Such as: [list] [*]Teaching games with novices. Ha ha ha--when playng the kids in the Go club, I often ORDER them to take a terrible move back. It seems to take them a while to get over wanting to play in tiger's mouths. |
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| Author: | lemonpie [ Tue May 19, 2015 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I remember this one player kept asking for undos, and I granted them all because it's a small thing to make someone happy, and then I made a rare misclick in the same game and asked for an undo to correct the mistake, and the guy refused. Five minutes later he asked for yet another undo and I let him have another, again. Pretty much sums up my policy. |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Wed May 20, 2015 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Generally, I grant any and all undo requests, regardless of context. |
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| Author: | daal [ Wed May 20, 2015 2:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I think this is quite an interesting question, and I do wonder whether we are all being entirely honest with ourselves when we state our personal undo policy. In the poll, I clicked "Accept undo requests for misclicks, but not misreads - by my own judgement," but when I think about it, that is more what I view as reasonable than what I actually do. What I actually do is more on a case by case basis, and emotions affect my decisions. Certainly I am more likely to grant an undo if I think it won't affect the outcome of the game, and there have been occasions in which I've clicked "no" in a close game without thinking about whether it was a misclick or not. My subjective feeling towards my opponent, which might be influenced by how quickly he plays his moves, the type or absence of a greeting and the speed with which the undo was requested also affects my willingness. Making decisions on the basis of emotions is often a bad idea in go, but I do it anyway. *shrug* |
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| Author: | joellercoaster [ Wed May 20, 2015 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
It's funny. On OGS the default UI allows you to hit 'SUBMIT' after you click the intersection to confirm it's where you want to play... and yet people choose not to use it, and allow themselves to have misclicks. That said, if a person claims a misclick and asks to undo, I will *always* allow it. What does it cost to be kind? I would say "unless they're a jerk" but I can actually say I've never met one on OGS. Just lucky, I guess. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Wed May 20, 2015 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
I grant undo whenever asked whether playing on line or face to face. If a serious mistake is made by misclick or by inattention, it spoils the game for both players in my opinion. |
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Wed May 20, 2015 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
Online I currently only play correspondence games … and sadly I have overseen more than one undo request. I’ve had it that I allowed to undo an alleged misclick where the player later played a better move somewhere else, and it didn't feel good during the rest of the game (IIRC I resigned later), but I don't want to burden my memory by remembering who it was nor do I want to burden my mind by keeping a grudge; I allow any undo — given that I notice the request. (I clicked wrong above, choosing the second option.) |
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| Author: | Bantari [ Thu May 21, 2015 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What is your undo policy? |
One option is missing: depends on many factors, like my mood and how many times a person takes back moves during games. For me, I usually, as a rule, grant any undo to my opponent. If somebody abuses the priviledge during the game, I might tighten up the rule a little, but usually I just avoid this player from then on. I know a guy who likes undo a whole sequences, multiple times during a game, for "learning". I put up with that for a while, then just stopped playing him - so much for "learning". Then there are the special times, when I wake up on the wrong side of the bed, my fuse is short, and I don't like granting undos - except for obvious misclicks, sometimes not at all. This does not happen very often, though - when I am in a bad mood, I usually do not play Go. I myself never ask for undo, and never undo even when the opponent suggests it. Makes games more interesting this way, I think. |
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