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Do you think I enjoy go?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13028		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pragmaticleas [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Do you think I enjoy go?
I would like to believe I enjoy go, but I am uncertain.

The reason is that I often find it a bit taxing on my brain in the middle of a game or after a game especially those against stronger players. The experience is similar when I do certain go problems or when I do multiple problems in a row. Sometimes I may even refrain from playing games or doing go problems because of the anticipated load on my brain. My guess is that the tiredness stems from the need to read out moves.

My interest in go for now is mainly trying to become stronger in the game [so that the game becomes more fun (?) or easier against players who used to be of equal strength (? Probably not, as I may always end up aiming up?) and so that I can teach a wider proportion of players better moves and better ways to analyse the game (?)].

However, I guess to become stronger I do need to play more good quality games and solve more go problems to improve my reading skills and intuition, but sometimes I just get too lazy to do either.

Does this happen to other go players or enthusiasts?

If not, would you recommend me to find another hobby instead? (I am a bit hesitant to give up on go though for some reason.)

Do you think after playing more games and doing more problems, it would somehow just 'click' and I would have more fun and/or have a easier time doing these two activities? I thought I read somewhere that the more go problems you solve, the more enjoyable solving go problems becomes; do you think it is true?
Author:  Solomon [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
How is it any different than taking up martial arts as a hobby, the only difference being that Go is mental rather than physical? It is taxing on the body (mind), and it takes work and not necessarily all fun to improve. Regardless, it isn't something that is just going to change after playing more games or doing more problems; you need to have a shift in perspective on Go. Maybe you just care too much about improving; I'm pretty sure insei / yunguseng do not enjoy studying all day either.
Author:  joellercoaster [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
pragmaticleas wrote:
Does this happen to other go players or enthusiasts?


To me at least? All the time.

Quote:
Do you think after playing more games and doing more problems, it would somehow just 'click' and I would have more fun and/or have a easier time doing these two activities?


There is a common recommendation that you do many problems that are easier than your level. This is actually beneficial for training pattern recognition! But it also has the side effect of making you feel better about doing problems :roll:
Author:  skydyr [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
No one's putting a gun to your head either way, and it's not like you need to play to earn a living. Play if you want to, study if you want to, or don't.

There's no shame in not being interested in something at some point, or ever. Similarly, for people who have put a lot of time into getting strong, it's as much a statement of their priorities as anything else.

One thing that is pretty universally true is that the better you get, the more effort you have to put in to continue to improve. Another is that there are local maximums that you need to abandon to continue to improve.

As for myself, I go through phases of more and less interest. If I ever get bored enough to stop, I will, but even then, that doesn't mean I've given it up forever. I also go through phases where I feel I'm doing quite well, and some where nothing seems to come together, my reading is all hallucinatory, and every game seems to be an exercise in staving off the inevitable loss. At those times, I usually take a bit of a break. No worries.
Author:  cel70 [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
If Go was easy to master, it wouldn't be as satisfying to play. :D

If you feel like you really need to take a break, play some light game, or even video game and after a while the urge to play a "deep" game will no doubt grip you again.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
pragmaticleas wrote:
Do you think I enjoy go?
...
I would like to believe I enjoy go, but I am uncertain.


Your post reminds me a little bit of myself :-)

Of course, only you can know if you enjoy go. You know this, too. So probably, you are really asking this question to yourself: "Do I, pragmaticleas, really enjoy go?".

You've asked a complex and philosophical question, so let's compare to something that's a bit easier to think about.

Let's say you have $10 to spend for dinner tonight. You could eat spaghetti. You might try pizza. Maybe you could have a salad, or perhaps sushi. Maybe you think that pizza is pretty good. The cheese has a nice texture and leaves you with a happy feeling. Pepperoni tastes pretty good, too. But it's not all good. Sometimes it leaves a salty flavor in your mouth. From that perspective, maybe sushi is better - usually less salty. But sushi is maybe less flavorful. But you have limited resources to spend. If you buy pizza, that means you don't have as much money to buy sushi tonight. It doesn't mean that you can never buy sushi again, but you'll have to give it up at the present moment. In the same way, your time is a limited resource. You only live once, and will die one day. Maybe you have 60 more years - maybe only 10 - maybe only a day.

So I recommend that you spend your time (and money for dinner!) on things that are "enjoyable" to you, whatever that means to you personally. Maybe that's go. Maybe that's something else. Maybe it's sometimes go, and sometimes something else.

But whatever you do, don't spend your time (or money!) on something that you don't want - it's a limited resource, and each decision you make is important.
Author:  dust [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
Yes, my enjoyment levels vary as well.

Quite often I take a break from playing, but look through professional games. At some point the urge to play again come back very strongly.

One proverb that a visiting Chinese professional left with me is 'enjoy the stronger player's strength', which I take to mean that you shouldn't be depressed that someone is stronger than you, but marvel at what depths the game has.

His other proverb I really liked as well: something like 'a go player experiences every human emotion in the course of a game'...Of course, it's a complete exaggeration, but it is amazing the amount of emotions you can go through in a game, and over the course of a go playing career. I really like the advice, because it reminds me that go isn't just about winning but the whole experience of going through a game.
Author:  daal [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
There is a lot of struggling involved in go. Struggling to read something out, struggling to find a good move, struggling to expand your mental limits, struggling to improve, struggling to cope with losses. Go is hard. I personally enjoy these struggles. I feel that they add something interesting and valuable to my life. But that's just me. Not everyone feels the same way.
Author:  tj86430 [ Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
I see no harm in switching from one hobby to another from time to time (or having several hobbies, the relative importance of which varies from time to time). Of course, if the sole purpose is to be as good as possible in whatever your hobby is, then it is counterproductive to switch between hobbies. However, if the idea is to enjoy the hobby/hobbies and not put so much emphasis on development of skills, then it is probably a good idea to concentrate on whatever feels best at the moment.

Over the years I've abandoned several hobbies, some of which (like go) I have later returned to. I think there is only one hobby (golf) I have practiced continuously since I started it, and even with golf my "enthusiasm" has varied from a couple of rounds / year with no practicing to way over hundred rounds and several hundred hours of practicing / year.

With all my hobbies I've found that I enjoy them more when I don't have too strict development goals but just "play for fun" - which is kind of strange since at the same time I'm by nature extremely competitive.
Author:  Bonobo [ Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
OH TEH PAINZ!!1

I’ve spent the past two or three years oscillating between 13 and 11 kyu and now am slowly moving from DDK to SDK … expecting to oscillate between SDK and DDK again for the next few years ;-)

Sort of a love/hate relationship (though it must be MUCH worse for stronger players), and sort of an addiction, too (masochism?). Thankfully I am not only addicted to the game itself but also to the social stuff surrounding it, and to many other kinds of activities, substances and habits :mrgreen:
Author:  jeromie [ Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
I really enjoy go. There are a few hobbies that I cycle in and out of with various degrees of enthusiasm, but for the last three years I have consistently engaged with go in some way. Even still, there are times when I am too tired or busy to play or work through problems. Often I can enjoy the game in some other way during these periods (reading a less taxing book, replaying pro games, playing 9x9 blitz, etc.) So yes, there are times when I am too tired or lazy to really work on improving my game even though I'm certain I really like it.

The hard question I often ask myself is the other side of the same coin: I really like go, but should I be investing so much time in the game? We all attribute a degree of value to our hobbies, and there are times when our time investment doesn't match that perceived value. You can resolve the conflict by changing how you spend your time or reassessing your priorities. I think you need to reflect on your relationship with the game. Why do you think you should like go? Are there ways you can spend time in the hobby during those periods when you need rest? Can you enjoy the game for what it is or will you always idealize what it might be if you were just one stone stronger? What would you be doing if you weren't playing go?

At the end of the day, go is a game. It's a great game with a rich history, a fascinating culture, and a welcoming community associated with it, but it's still a game. There is no obligation to like playing go, and it's okay to decide it's not for you. If you do decide to stick with it, I hope you find a way it can bring you joy.
Author:  longshanks [ Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
pragmaticleas wrote:
I would like to believe I enjoy go, but I am uncertain.


Well I think you do. You've not given up yet have you? The problem is likely that the game is hard/taxing.

Invested time and effort is not always immediately rewarded. And playing and losing or studying and getting no better is just not fun. The other problem is as soon as you remove your Go stabilisers and start improving you learn all the things you're bad at. Fixing those things is not as easy as listing them. I'm pretty sure that players of ALL strengths think they suck at Go. For me there are lots of Go related activities that keeps me motivated when I'm not playing so well (study, read this forum, do Go problems, teach a newcomer how to play etc).

I've started going through Graded Go Problems series again after seeing it recommended here in another thread this week. I'd forgotten how enjoyable the series is!

Maybe someone should start a 'What do I suck at the most?' thread/poll. Would be interesting to see if any particular things rise to the top. I bet everyone says reading!

Anyway if you fancy a correspondance game private message me :)
Author:  Joelnelsonb [ Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do you think I enjoy go?
If you came to a forum and asked the question than the answer is quite obvious. Here's a test: quit playing. Never get the board out, never flip through a book and stay completely off of the forums and servers.

My wife once said in relation to Chess "whenever you play that dumb game, you look miserable."
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