Life In 19x19
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Recording games
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1446		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  zarzamora [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Recording games
Earlier today I posted two photos of games I had played earlier this morning. I noted that I hadn't recorded them, so there was no way to elaborate on exactly what happened on the board. That said...

I do have some blank recording sheets, I believe, and I'm wondering what the best way to do that would be. Making circles with move numbers is one thing. But what about areas that have been captured multiple times or where a ko fight was played? Seems like it could get a bit messy on paper. I know that one option is to have a computer nearby and create an sgf. But I feel like that would be distracting not only for me, but for the people I'm playing with. Keeping track on a sheet would be easier...and I'd have less to carry around with me.

I know there must be conventions for dealing with the game aspects that I've mentioned without making a mess of your recording. Has anyone else ever done this by hand before?
Author:  Li Kao [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
I think you note those moves below the diagram as "17 on 5" when move 17 is on the same point as move 5 was.
Author:  LocoRon [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
I know some people do this. Personally, I cannot record a game while playing it. I tried a couple times at a club meeting once. The results were catastrophic. When I remember to record each move, my reading and focus on the game was heavily impaired, and when I was focusing on the game as much as I should have been, I forgotten to record whole sequences, leading me to frantically catching up the record. All in all, it severely affected my games, and I will never try it again.

Playing the game back from memory may be too much to ask for now, but if having a record of all your games is that important, perhaps you could ask someone else (not your opponent) to record the game, and offer to record their game in exchange?

As for how to actually do it; as I understand it, use two different colored pens or pencils to record the move numbers, and mark the move number for kos below the diagram (as Li Kao mentioned already).
Author:  Shaddy [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
the way i do it: for black stones, just write the move number. for white stones, write the move no. and circle it.
Author:  prokofiev [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
See http://senseis.xmp.net/?GameRecord and http://senseis.xmp.net/?HowToRecordAGame
Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
When I record kifu of my games, I do it the way Kaga tells Shindou to do it in Hikaru no Go: for black stones, simply write the move number with a black pen, and for white stones, write the move number with a red pen. I find that this makes it very easy to see the board position and to follow the moves. I also use just standard grid paper and create the board on it myself, rather than trying to acquire any fancy kifu paper.
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
Tip from my days as a debater: tape two pens together, heads facing in opposite directions. Then you can just spin the pen.
Author:  zarzamora [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
hyperpape wrote:
Tip from my days as a debater: tape two pens together, heads facing in opposite directions. Then you can just spin the pen.


LOL. That's fantastic. I love it.
Author:  zarzamora [ Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
Dusk Eagle wrote:
When I record kifu of my games, I do it the way Kaga tells Shindou to do it in Hikaru no Go: for black stones, simply write the move number with a black pen, and for white stones, write the move number with a red pen. I find that this makes it very easy to see the board position and to follow the moves. I also use just standard grid paper and create the board on it myself, rather than trying to acquire any fancy kifu paper.


I used to use grid paper too, then I found this pre-designed paper...I'm not sure where...and it's been great. But the black and red pen thing--I'll definitely do that. At least I'll have a reason to use all my red pens now. :roll:
Author:  k1ndofblue [ Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
If you have a itouch or iphone you can use SmartGo.
Author:  kirkmc [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
k1ndofblue wrote:
If you have a itouch or iphone you can use SmartGo.


Or an iPad. I did it yesterday, when playing a rare face-to-face game.
Author:  palapiku [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
Use a pencil, because you will screw up.
Author:  mohsart [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
The screw ups are typically not noted until many moves later, so using a pencil helps very very little, also trying to "fix" them during the game will definitely ruin your focus.
I'd suggest the cheapest palmtop available, if you don't need it for something else as well.
Back when I recorded my games I used the cheapest Palm Pilot that then, around 2004, cost me SEK 700:- or so new (~€70/$100 I guess, but possibly cheaper in the US.)
Or any equipment that you already have, of course, like a cell phone.

/Mats
Author:  palapiku [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
I have a real kifu book I got in China, so I sort of feel obliged to use it (didn't need it for a year but will definitely use it at the tournament in September).
I didn't find it terribly difficult or distracting. On the other hand I did screw up majorly, such as writing 62 instead of 72 and never noticing, so that I had ten numbers appear twice. :)
Author:  zarzamora [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
palapiku wrote:
I have a real kifu book I got in China, so I sort of feel obliged to use it (didn't need it for a year but will definitely use it at the tournament in September).
I didn't find it terribly difficult or distracting. On the other hand I did screw up majorly, such as writing 62 instead of 72 and never noticing, so that I had ten numbers appear twice. :)


LOL. That sounds like something I would do. Hopefully the correct move was obvious by the board layout?
Author:  palapiku [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
Not really...

One simple sanity check: in an even game, White always plays even-numbered moves. If you circle the White moves, only even numbers should be circled. This makes it hard to write the same number twice by accident.
Author:  xed_over [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
palapiku wrote:
One simple sanity check: in an even game, White always plays even-numbered moves. If you circle the White moves, only even numbers should be circled. This makes it hard to write the same number twice by accident.

heh, not really. I write the same numbers down twice all the time, because I'm constantly losing the count. :)

Usually when I'm reading a variation, I'll start with the current move number, "62 here, 63 there, 64, 65,...", then by the time I actually play the move, I'll either record the last number in my head (skipping a whole series of numbers, and sometimes even switching the odd/even for white), or rewinding back too far and repeating a whole series of numbers.

As to switching between old/even for white... I'll usually use the non-standard of trying to keep white as even numbers in handicap games by considering all of black's handicap stones as move 1 (sgf editors usually consider white's first move in a handicap game as move 1 -- "odd"). That way I'm less likely to accidentally switch my odd/even moves for white.

And if I really lose count, I'll just add 10 to what I think it is, and start from there (trying to avoid duplicating the same numbers already).

It really helps to have a game clock that displays move numbers (except in handicap games where I'm always off by 1 :) )
Author:  palapiku [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
xed_over wrote:
And if I really lose count, I'll just add 10 to what I think it is, and start from there (trying to avoid duplicating the same numbers already).

Hah, that's a cool trick, I might have to use that :)
Author:  EdLee [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Recording games
Other than a computer/PDA/smartphone, you can also use a point-and-shoot digital camera,
at VGA quality (640x480), and just take a snapshot every few moves. Turn off all
beeps and chimes and the flash so you don't annoy your opponent or others.
For josekis or other standard sequences that you already know, or are forced,
you can take even fewer photos. For complicated fights or the end-game,
you can take a photo every other move. It is up to you. It works great for me.
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