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Random Ramblings http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15804 |
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Author: | Elom [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Random Ramblings |
A little more of my bad habit of writing on things I'm uninitiated in. Demographics From more musings, I wondered about approaching different age demographics: 0-19 20-29 30-49 50+ And strength demographics: The Dans 1-9 kyus (SDK's) 10-19 kyus (DDK's) 20-29 kyus (TPK's) 20+ Kyus And thought, any community or organisation, in our case Go, might try to obtain rapport with each of these groups by giving something needed by each of these demographics. Engagement and education to 0-19 year olds. Health for double digit kyus. But overlaying individual allocations of needs from each group in matrix form provides 16 different categories to think of when trying to promote go! Surely, there has to be a better way? Well, there may be. It's hard not to think of the needs of the 0-19 and 30-49 groups as anything but interrelated in the form of family, and likewise, 20-29 and 50+ group members may have much to offer between themselves. Therefore, we could group them like this: A: 0-19 and 30-49 B: 20-29 and 50+ A bit easier thinking of shared needs, maybe. |
Author: | Kirby [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
I understand the categories for the age demographics, but I don't get what you mean by the strength demographics (majesty, etc.). |
Author: | Elom [ Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Regarding strength demographics, combining fun and health makes— sport! Combining majesty, or prestige if you prefer, with the almost artistic inspiration or 'kung fu' of self improvement through go, and we may have the basis for what we see in athletes that attract us to the competitive element of go even if we are not as strong at go (game commentaries also help!). So we can similarly group each strength group; 1: Dan players and Single Digit Kyus 2: Double Digit Kyus and Twenty Plus Kyus Just four, then, rather than 16, areas of focus to expend go promotion efforts. A1 B1 A2 B2 |
Author: | Elom [ Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Kirby wrote: I understand the categories for the age demographics, but I don't get what you mean by the strength demographics (majesty, etc.). Decoration. For those that are new to the game, introduction in a very direct manner— 'This is go. The queen of all board games.' May not be so inspiring for the receiver. While I may find it difficult to fathom how anyone's not instantly 'starstruck by the star points', so to speak, an adrenaline junkie may say the same in regards to me towards his or her passions. Maybe much of what interests people to things they do not instantaneously gravitate to may lie, to some degree, in decoration. Below, I'm referring to the likely mindset and time span of the 'averagely talented' person, whatever it may mean, and even then a chart coming from a naïve 18 year old is not too serious. |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Elom wrote: For those that are new to the game, introduction in a very direct manner— 'This is go. The queen of all board games.' The goddess of all board games. Fixed that for you. ![]() |
Author: | Elom [ Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
A wonderful work, happening to coincide somewhat with this topic: https://eurogofed.org/index.html?id=206 |
Author: | Elom [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
If there are people with heightened levels of loneliness, I don't see why go might not have a chance at helping a little in some cases. Especially from reviewing peoples games ![]() |
Author: | Elom [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Quadrant Go Maybe some beginners are a little frighted of the 19x19 boards. It is perhaps, in general, better for them to play on a smaller board as beginners, as noted by many. However, it seems to be possible to simulate 9x9 play on a 19x19 board! Four players might play with four colours, Red, Green, Blue and Grey. Each player sits on one side of the board. Play moves clockwise. Each player can play in their nearest ten lines of the board. So at any one time: every player can play on tengen, three players can play on each axis emanating thereof, and two players on each 9x9 quarter. This might be like playing two 9x9 games with someone to your left and right, with the added complexity of them being linked in the middle. The same rules of go apply; superko might be most appropriate, but a ko is unlikely to occur until the very latter stages of the game due to the number of players. Any stone or group of stones surrounded by stones of a different colour are removed, as in normal go. Being captured by more than a single colour of stones only occurs on the axes. It might be funny if the player on your opposite side can kibitz on all your moves! Or nice if it could be a new form of pair go, with team members on the opposite side, as in bridge (and coming to think of it, does 'pair bridge' (one male, one female) exist?). |
Author: | Elom [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:19 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Gardening introduction to go. Their are 361 sowing points on the field. Each seed you plant relies on four roots to acquire nutrients from the soil. If each of the points are occupied by competing plant seeds, competition for resources kills the budding young seed. Groups of seeds of the same plant variety share the roots with each other. Likewise, they also die if their roots are surround by plants of opposing species. The goal is to mark out an area of soil for your sustenance. Oh, and don't repeat the same planting pattern shortly after it's appearance— no one accepts such lack of imagination. |
Author: | Elom [ Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
The second half of July always feel a little wanting... Unless you have a Wimbledon International Go Championships! Hail the carrot cakes and cheese, because of the purple and brown colour combination. |
Author: | Elom [ Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
*Is there a difference between go and physical sport in that you need commentary to enjoy the former? I am only able to see, in this regard, the difference historically being, the ability to know the current score, who's ahead and who's not, the majority of people having no way of having any understanding of what is going on in any given game of any given sport. Unless, of course, if they are or have been students of that sport, understanding increasing with competence. In addition, it seems to be the case that a spectator can be invested in a competition, while having a very informal relationship with what's being played (Class D, 'Dabblers'). But commentary's provided for a reason. In any case, in the future, if AI is stronger and more efficient in energy by factors, multiple AI, on any given game, can give their own opinion on the winning probabilities of each side in any given position, perhaps a truer metric than points (material advantage). Like for every game in an international tournament, concentrating resources and increasing roll-outs in line with higher stages and decreasing games. Ah, instead of competing to be a wider niche within a niche, we can 'compete' with sport, drawing people in not for the results, left to pros, but for the beauty of the game (and wisdom of the people), and with AI, our arch nemesis and most human of friends, allowing that to be possible. Perhaps. *As mentioned in this talk by Haylee Maas (that you've definitely seen). |
Author: | Elom [ Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Go gives endless opportunities to muse. Ten’s guide to studying professional games has made me wonder, just a little, on some go terms. It seems a go game consists of (and of course, but I must mention using such loaded terms, I speculate here): the Beginning Game (序盤, Jouban) Phase 1 Opening/Layout (Japanese, '布石-Fuseki') + either Phase 2 (Transitory) or Phase 3* (Fighting) ---------- the Middle Game (Japanese '中盤-Chuuban') either Phase 2 (Transitory) or Phase 3 (Fighting) ---------- the Ending Game (Japanese '終盤-Shuuban') Phase 4 (Transitory) + Phase 5 (Closing/Finishing (Japanese 'ヨセ-Yose'**) ![]() *Rather than assign the middle game as stage 3, I treat it as something which may contain stage 3. **What I have deduced from there, here, and perhaps other places: like other phases, it technically can be played any phase of game, and there are cases in which it's most correct to, but most times, off-phase plays will result in the punishments mentioned in Antti Törmänen 1p's essay. |
Author: | Elom [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
I might think that the perception of go under Chinese rules make go simpler. The Oxford Dictionary defines Go as 'A Japanese board game of territorial possession and capture'. However, if we view the aim of go as making life, with territories purpose being simply to increase it's abundance, rules such as 'play urgent points before big points' come naturally to the beginner directed towards the life-oriented goal, the lesson learned from leaving weak groups to the tigers mouths now interpreted as, 'don't be greedy: make life, if worthwhile, in weak areas first before making it abundant elsewhere!'. |
Author: | Abyssinica [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
I thought go's purpose was to put as many stones on the board as you can and whoever has more, wins. So in Chinese rules at the end we can just fill in our territory and whoever has to get one of their groups down to one eye loses. |
Author: | Tryss [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
This is a "area scoring + group tax" rule, slightly different from the usual area scoring. Take this exemple : With area scoring, black has 41 points, and white 40, so it's a black win. But if you force both players to fill : Black can only put 19 more stones inside his territories, while white can put 20 stone : white will win Basically, each group cost you 2 points compared to the usual area scoring |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Abyssinica wrote: I thought go's purpose was to put as many stones on the board as you can and whoever has more, wins. So in Chinese rules at the end we can just fill in our territory and whoever has to get one of their groups down to one eye loses. Actually, that's the capture game. ![]() Using Tryss's example: Under modern territory scoring, Black has 14 pts. on the top and 9 pts. on the bottom, for 23 pts., and White has 22 pts.; so Black wins by 1 pt. However, in the capture game neither player wants to play inside the other's territory first and lose that stone, so each player will fill in her own territory. Because of the necessity of two eye points per group, Black has only 12 moves (i.e., points) on the top and 7 moves (points) on the bottom for 19 moves (points) total. White has 20 moves (points); so White is one move (1 pt.) ahead. So White will win, no matter whose turn it is. ![]() |
Author: | jlt [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:00 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Anyway, with one rule or the other, the game stays about the same. Beginners think it's a game of life and death. After a while they realize the goal of the game is not to kill the opponent, but to make a bigger territory. And after a while they realize the game is not about making territories, but about life and death. |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
jlt wrote: Anyway, with one rule or the other, the game stays about the same. Beginners think it's a game of life and death. After a while they realize the goal of the game is not to kill the opponent, but to make a bigger territory. And after a while they realize the game is not about making territories, but about life and death. The Zen of Go. ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Elom [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Tryss wrote: This is a "area scoring + group tax" rule, slightly different from the usual area scoring. Take this exemple : With area scoring, black has 41 points, and white 40, so it's a black win. But if you force both players to fill : Black can only put 19 more stones inside his territories, while white can put 20 stone : white will win Basically, each group cost you 2 points compared to the usual area scoring Does this mean that group-tax go, which is counting to see who has more stones to determine the winner, becomes modern area scoring if you give two points of komi to each player for every group they have on the board? Bill Spight wrote: Abyssinica wrote: I thought go's purpose was to put as many stones on the board as you can and whoever has more, wins. So in Chinese rules at the end we can just fill in our territory and whoever has to get one of their groups down to one eye loses. Actually, that's the capture game. ![]() Using Tryss's example: Under modern territory scoring, Black has 14 pts. on the top and 9 pts. on the bottom, for 23 pts., and White has 22 pts.; so Black wins by 1 pt. However, in the capture game neither player wants to play inside the other's territory first and lose that stone, so each player will fill in her own territory. Because of the necessity of two eye points per group, Black has only 12 moves (i.e., points) on the top and 7 moves (points) on the bottom for 19 moves (points) total. White has 20 moves (points); so White is one move (1 pt.) ahead. So White will win, no matter whose turn it is. ![]() Is the capture game in which who loses fewer stones wins? ![]() |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Random Ramblings |
Elom wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Abyssinica wrote: I thought go's purpose was to put as many stones on the board as you can and whoever has more, wins. So in Chinese rules at the end we can just fill in our territory and whoever has to get one of their groups down to one eye loses. Actually, that's the capture game. ![]() Using Tryss's example: Under modern territory scoring, Black has 14 pts. on the top and 9 pts. on the bottom, for 23 pts., and White has 22 pts.; so Black wins by 1 pt. However, in the capture game neither player wants to play inside the other's territory first and lose that stone, so each player will fill in her own territory. Because of the necessity of two eye points per group, Black has only 12 moves (i.e., points) on the top and 7 moves (points) on the bottom for 19 moves (points) total. White has 20 moves (points); so White is one move (1 pt.) ahead. So White will win, no matter whose turn it is. ![]() Is the capture game in which who loses fewer stones wins? ![]() No, the winner is the player who first captures one or more stones. I claim that from the given position White wins, even if White plays first, because White has one more point of territory than Black, with a group tax. Let me show that. I doesn't matter where Black plays ![]() OC, the quick way to tell who wins when there are no more dame left (and there is no stone inside the opponent's territory) is to count territory with a group tax. BTW, the earliest surviving game records with scores apparently used territory scoring with a group tax. ![]() |
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