Life In 19x19 :: Hikaru versus girlfriend

Author:

CSamurai [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:35 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend

palapiku wrote:

Akira obviously thinks that what's important in life is to get stronger at Go. Do you think he's mistaken, then? Or are you just trying to impose your own values on him?

A) He's not real. He's a character in a comic. He doesn't think anything, or have any values other than the ones imposed by his author.

B) As a fictional character, he's clearly meant to be an example of dedication. This is what's called an 'archtypical' character. However, when writing an archtypical character, especially one whose archytype is Singularly Focused Dedicated Student, you run the risk of making the character hard to relate to. Few people in life are a single focus. Very few well balanced individuals are a single focus. Since he is hard to relate to, and further, hard to emulate, he becomes the foil for Hikaru's youthful desire to 'grab a few titles'. He becomes a counterpoint to a character we can all relate to.

C) I would feel sorry for any child, in any field, struggling with the pressures and forces that Akira is dealing with, even if they became wildly successful in their field, be it sports, go, etc. To have a father who is 'the very best', to be under pressure from within and without to live up to not only your father's expectations, but the expectations of those around you, and your own internal expectations is a crushing thing for anyone.

D) I find it strange that you're that worried about what I think about a fictional comic book character.

E) On the list of things that are important in life, I think most people would find that 'getting better at go' should rank below 'being a well balanced and sane individual'. Even pros are hardly ever 'singularly focused' upon go. They do show a great deal of dedication and perserverence. They do struggle with a harshly competative world to succeed. But they have other interests, and do things besides study go every minute of every day.

Hikaru no go is Not Real.

Thank you.
C-Sam

Author:	Chew Terr [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Hikaru versus girlfriend
So, in another thread, I mentioned that my girlfriend and I had recently made a deal: I would read Pride and Prejudice if she would read all of Hikaru no Go. I finished P&P, and ended up enjoying it, to my surprise. As a result, my girlfriend has begun to get to know Hikaru. She decided to write down her thoughts on it as she read it, and is doing it in a blog format. As ya'all are the only people I know who care about Hikaru no Go, I figured I'd share the link (after getting permission, of course), so you can enjoy the thoughts of a total neophyte on the series. http://moreink.blogspot.com/ edit: Fair warning, she's only finished the first book so far, but she plans to post after each volume. Also, as may be obvious, there may be spoilers on the series there, eventually.

Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/

Hikaru versus girlfriend http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1674	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Jordus [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Lol! that is a great blog! I can't wait to read more

Author:	daal [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
above quoted blogger wrote: "I also understand that there are people for whom Go is Serious Business." I bet she does.

Author:	palapiku [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Can we see your blog on Pride and Prejudice, too?

Author:	ketchup [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
More than Go, I think she'll find the growth of the characters interesting. I re-read HnG because of that growth(personality, age, strength, etc), rather than the Go itself. It's really what makes that series amazing. Because, let's face it, the Go in that manga is pretty minimal. You could pretty much replace it with any other game, and it would still work as well. Although, maybe then, a lot of us might be playing some other game Good blog though, this is a good/funny statement. Hidden because I do not want to spoil blog content: Blog Writer wrote: I feel mostly sorry for Akira, as he doesn't seem to do much else but Go, obsessing over Go, thinking about Go, and solving Go problems. I bet his "About Me" section in facebook would be superboring, and he status updates would all be Go board coordinates.

Author:	apetresc [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Your girlfriend made an analogy to Calvin and Hobbes. She's a keeper, Chew. Remember that.

Author:	palapiku [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Replying to ketchup I don't feel sorry for Akira-kun at all, he's really good at something and knows what he wants in life. Is having varied Facebook updates that much more worthwhile?

Author:	CSamurai [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
palapiku wrote: Replying to ketchup I don't feel sorry for Akira-kun at all, he's really good at something and knows what he wants in life. Is having varied Facebook updates that much more worthwhile? I find social websites mystifying. my last attempt at live journal died when I was in my early 20s. I've never had a myspace page, or a facebook profile. I have a twitter account. Which I have never used. The whole idea of social media escapes me. Given all this, let me say a few things. There is more to life than whatever singular thing you excell at. If I were the best coder on earth, and all I did every day was code, if I gave up friends because they didn't talk about optomizing search algorythms, if I eschewed relationships because they failed to understand the importance of perl implimentation in a web based environment.. I'd be an amazingly boring individual to be around. I would, in fact, be what is commonly refered to as a 'nerd'. I've met sports nerds whose entire world revolved around their sport. I've met computer nerds whose entire life revolved around your computer. Her observation, tinged by her own facebook obsessed culture, holds water in this regard. She basically said, (for those of us who do not live in the Social Web) 'Isn't it sad, this young boy is so driven to succeed in this field that he doesn't play games with other children, he doesn't read comics and have fun. All he does is go. He just studies and works all the time, and gives up what most of us would consider to be the important bits of life for it.' And she's right.

Author:	palapiku [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Akira obviously thinks that what's important in life is to get stronger at Go. Do you think he's mistaken, then? Or are you just trying to impose your own values on him?

Author:	RazorBrain [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Helel wrote: @CSamurai: Given the nature of the audience of this forum I wouldn't say anything bad about nerds... Nerds indeed! I prefer Go Geek. It rolls off the tongue in a more pleasing fashion. ------------------------- "It's just surprising to read such a dramatic account of something that, at least to me, is fairly mundane." I hate to admit that black and white stones and a wooden board don't make for excited onlookers. As a spectator sport, go lacks a little something, especially for casual fans. That however is what makes go players as excited as Sai when someone begins to glimpse what we all too clearly see, go's depth and beauty. Hah, and if Sai didn't get crazy excited, the Hikaru series would have lost people to deep comatose states. That's half the fun of HnG is seeing the way they hype go up and turn essentially a cerebral adventure into something worthy of 75 episodes:) Looking forward to more blog posts, as I'm just beginning to watch HnG again with my 9 year old.

Author:	CSamurai [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Monadology wrote: You also reference what most people consider "important in life," you also use the word "sane". All of these tend to be loaded terms that people unconsciously employ that create and reinforce implicit social norms. To use another example, often extroverted people will view those who keep to themselves with a similar kind of pity and view them as lacking "what's important." Certainly they are welcome to have their values, but it's very easy to step from that to a general atmosphere that excludes differently inclined individuals from a sense of 'normalcy'. I find this observation rather interesting. As someone who is most definably /not/ sane, I tend to be very aware of people who's behaviour is well outside accepted social norms for sanity. This is why I use terms like that. Notice, I never said what I consider important in life. My values are quite skewed, and well into the abnormal. But those aren't what we're really discussing. Akira, as observable in the first book, is not what would be defined by modern psychology as a well adjusted individual. While I often defend the 'Abnormal Viewpoints are Still Valid Viewpoints' banner, there are times when weird is just weird, and an obsession that takes over your entire life to the point that you eschew all other activities, well, that's one of the definitions of weird in a rather large book all about weird. Back nominally on topic, I really enjoy reading your girlfriend's take on Go and on manga. Seeing her getting a greater understanding of the japanese culture is a neat bonus to introducing her to her first manga. I think HNG is a really interesting choice as a first manga, and I will start checking the blog regularly to make sure I don't miss any updates. EDIT: Also, Chew, have you told her that the creator/pro behind HNG is a woman? I wonder if that would colour her reading of the interactions with girls and women in the book?

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Author:	Chew Terr [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Her second post is up. I'm not going to post everytime she comments on a book (as there are 20+ of them and I don't want to flood the forum), but I figured that there was enough response to the first to merit an update.

Author:	tchan001 [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
"Chew is more likely to concentrate quietly, without a single, delicate sweat drop forming on his brow" Chew you're not studying hard enough. Your girlfriend won't fall in love with go if you don't show her more dedication to the game. lol

Author:	Monadology [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
I think it's less that Akira matters, and more that your attitude towards people of Akira's type, whether fictional or not, matters. You also reference what most people consider "important in life," you also use the word "sane". All of these tend to be loaded terms that people unconsciously employ that create and reinforce implicit social norms. To use another example, often extroverted people will view those who keep to themselves with a similar kind of pity and view them as lacking "what's important." Certainly they are welcome to have their values, but it's very easy to step from that to a general atmosphere that excludes differently inclined individuals from a sense of 'normalcy'. Quote: C) I would feel sorry for any child, in any field, struggling with the pressures and forces that Akira is dealing with, even if they became wildly successful in their field, be it sports, go, etc. To have a father who is 'the very best', to be under pressure from within and without to live up to not only your father's expectations, but the expectations of those around you, and your own internal expectations is a crushing thing for anyone. This on the other hand I think is a pretty legitimate reason. In this case it's external factors and the pressure they exert not a question of Akira's fitting the "healthy" range of behavior/personality.

Author:	palapiku [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
CSamurai wrote: D) I find it strange that you're that worried about what I think about a fictional comic book character. I was talking to ketchup actually, but then you replied to to my post directed to him.

Author:	Kirby [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
I think the idea of having a "rival ghost" of Sai is interesting. It didn't happen in the manga, but it's an interesting observation of how the story could have unfolded.

Author:	RazorBrain [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
CSamurai wrote: Monadology wrote: . . . there are times when weird is just weird, and an obsession that takes over your entire life to the point that you eschew all other activities, well, that's one of the definitions of weird in a rather large book all about weird. I live near the US Olympic Training Center and have had the opportunity to get to know several Olympians and wanna be Olympians. They can be more like Akira than different I've watched one medalist's life fall apart because that person was focused solely on Olympic glory. I'm one that agrees with the statement above. The funny thing is that Western culture seems to embrace this form of weird as something to shoot for: "Higher, Faster, Stronger!" Perhaps it should be "Obsessive, Compulsive, Unbalanced!"

Author:	Chew Terr [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
CSamurai wrote: Also, Chew, have you told her that the creator/pro behind HNG is a woman? I wonder if that would colour her reading of the interactions with girls and women in the book? Yes, she was surprised and interested to hear that, and that may inform her further impressions of the gender interactions in the books. I'm happy that she's enjoying the series, as it's kind of a good introduction to go from the perspective of "I can listen to people talk about this game and care about what they're saying, even if I only kind of understand the rules." Hikaru no Go is an interestingish story, wrapped in "go light", which is plenty, from the perspective of "sharing your boyfriend's interest". Similarly, it was nice to enjoy Pride and Prejudice, especially as our cat is named "Darcy". More later, time for lunch.

Author:	wms [ Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Hikaru versus girlfriend
Chew Terr wrote: I finished P&P, and ended up enjoying it, to my surprise. You shouldn't be surprised! P&P is a great book. Jane Austen is a very good writer. People who haven't read her stuff sometimes think that she writes weepy romances, and the movies of her books don't help that much, but in reality her books are funny and sarcastic.